DE-CAT/Crosstalk issues?
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
From: Leesburg, FL
DE-CAT/Crosstalk issues?
I'm new to this de catting thing..Wifey complaining about the heat from the cat area, live in FL and AUG is miserable, EITMS comes on alot in summer, SOoooo--I bought a like header from another 2011 FLHTK and decatted it.Haven't put on yet, but I keep reading about CROSSTALK because of decatting.
I have a SE super tuner, so I HAVE to utilize the O2 sensors. It seems that this crosstalk issue keeps coming up in conversations when decatting is mentioned.
Has anyone actually experienced this crosstalk?? From looking at numerous threads about this..most say NO issues at all.
I sure as hell don't want to put this thing on, then have issues (I know I need to retune the SEPST) then end up getting either another aftermarket pipe, or get a Power commander or such that doesn't use the O2 sensors.
What say ye EXPERTS??? (Those with O2 sensors still retained and a SEPST or similar tuner)
Mark
I have a SE super tuner, so I HAVE to utilize the O2 sensors. It seems that this crosstalk issue keeps coming up in conversations when decatting is mentioned.
Has anyone actually experienced this crosstalk?? From looking at numerous threads about this..most say NO issues at all.
I sure as hell don't want to put this thing on, then have issues (I know I need to retune the SEPST) then end up getting either another aftermarket pipe, or get a Power commander or such that doesn't use the O2 sensors.
What say ye EXPERTS??? (Those with O2 sensors still retained and a SEPST or similar tuner)
Mark
Last edited by FLPostman; Nov 22, 2011 at 08:46 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,916
Likes: 31
From: earth
I have decided that O2 cross talk is like Carbon Monoxide, its there, but you can't see it, feel it, smell it, or taste it, and in small doses it has no appreciable effect. Most people wouldn't know if they've actually experienced it, unless it was severe, it wouldn't be "felt" as a significant change in rideablity. Skilled dyno operators can identify the condition by peculiar A/F fluctuation indicators when analyzing front and rear cylinder feedback, at the same time. It would require an intentional probe procedure for the purpose of identifying sensor cross talk in order to validate the condition. Despite the fact the average owner doesn't notice it, it does occur and it does prevent tuning to optimum performance potential of your engine, but most people report no noticeable ill effects. Chances are your gutted pipe set up will run good enough to satisfy you, even with cross talk. Personally it doesn't make sense to me to waste my time tuning for optimum performance, knowing I have voluntarily introduced a rogue variable. Sorry, but I can't follow the lemmings to the edge of the cliff on this topic. Seems the only people who recognize this condition as having merit, are people who have actual hands on tuning experience. That being said, I'm confident that you will "feel" that your bike runs just "fine", with no "issues", or "negative effects".
Last edited by fabrik8r; Nov 22, 2011 at 10:35 AM. Reason: spelling
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 6
From: N/A
You spent what $20K+ on the new scoot?
I wouldn't risk it, just helped my cousin install the new X pipe from Fuel moto on his 2011 Ultra. Nice pipe, weighs a fraction of what the OEM one does with O2 bungs for the newer smaller O2 sensors in the OEM location.
I could not believe how heavy that OEM Cat header pipe was. Be sure you check the bottom 2 trany trap door bolts, no matter what you do. The weight of the OEM header along with the heat will have that trany door seal leaking in no time. Loc tight & torque them, ours were loose.
Yes it was $500 bucs but how do you place a cost on piece of mind???
I wouldn't risk it, just helped my cousin install the new X pipe from Fuel moto on his 2011 Ultra. Nice pipe, weighs a fraction of what the OEM one does with O2 bungs for the newer smaller O2 sensors in the OEM location.
I could not believe how heavy that OEM Cat header pipe was. Be sure you check the bottom 2 trany trap door bolts, no matter what you do. The weight of the OEM header along with the heat will have that trany door seal leaking in no time. Loc tight & torque them, ours were loose.
Yes it was $500 bucs but how do you place a cost on piece of mind???
Last edited by 05FLHTC; Nov 22, 2011 at 10:06 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,616
Likes: 4,440
From: anacoco, la
why does what he spent on the scoot have any bearing? okay, so he spent 20k, does that mean he should use oil that costs $10 qt vs oil that costs $6 per qt. how about a lift, can't use that $59 harbor freight, there is a pitbull out there for $400.... it goes on and on. maybe, just maybe, he could afford to spend $20k on his bike because he used his money wisely in other areas?
i fall into both camps. on my 2010, i have a 2-1, decatted, and using the power vision tuner. now i haven't done all the extensive testing that fabrik8r is suggesting, but my bike runs well enough. in my case though, there are not a lot of options available for the 2-1 header pipes.
on the wife's 2012, i did go with the fuelmoto 2-1-2 stainless, ceramic coated header. at this time, everything else is still stock (air box, mufflers, and tune). she doesn't like to rush into things. she will research, and research, and research some more until she has figured out what she wants and then buy it once.
i fall into both camps. on my 2010, i have a 2-1, decatted, and using the power vision tuner. now i haven't done all the extensive testing that fabrik8r is suggesting, but my bike runs well enough. in my case though, there are not a lot of options available for the 2-1 header pipes.
on the wife's 2012, i did go with the fuelmoto 2-1-2 stainless, ceramic coated header. at this time, everything else is still stock (air box, mufflers, and tune). she doesn't like to rush into things. she will research, and research, and research some more until she has figured out what she wants and then buy it once.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 361
Likes: 3
From: Nashville, TN
I installed an 09' header(no cat) and a Power Commander 5 and plugged the 02 sensor bungs. Runs like a charm, and heat issue gone.
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 210
Likes: 6
From: N/A
I made my point you made yrs or I think not sure.
Do what ever blows yr skirt up for christ sake!
The OP asked & I gave my reply & thoughts you can do the same no worries here it's yr ride do what ever
Last edited by 05FLHTC; Nov 22, 2011 at 02:36 PM.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: earth
Just a couple points of clarification; I dont think O2 crosstalk is BS, I believe it is quite real. I'm not suggesting anyone have their bike specifically tested for O2 crosstalk, only that it would require a special test to verify if it is actally happening to your bike. I was just trying to respond thoroughly with some diplomacy, without inciting civil unrest.
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 396
Likes: 1
From: Cypress, Texas
Mine has run fine for the last 9 months without the cat and I running American Custom bomber mufflers with the mid baffles. Not a single issue. However, it did not run good without the mid baffles. If you are concerned with the possible crosstalk then install 2 new bungs into the individual pipes closer to the engine and plug the stock holes. Possible problem solved.