cam bearing failure
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 241
Likes: 2
From: Yelm, Washington
For what its worth...I installed my Woods 777's today and when I was installing the new cams I almost thought of leaving the existing bearings in. I looked at the old cams surface and seen where there was some wear on 1 of the cams, and that was enough for me to go rent the tool and replace them with the torrington bearings that were in the kit I bought from Fuel Moto.
Here's the dissenting (minority) view.
Caged bearings are more expensive to produce than full complement bearings, and the INA bearings are German-made, high quality bearings. Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
For me, the jury's still out, but I'm skeptical by nature. I still have some difficulty believing the full complement Torringtons are necessarily an upgrade, even though I put them in my bike at the last cam change. I don't think changing to the full complement Torringtons is a mistake, but I still don't believe it's absolutely necessary.
One of these days, we'll probably get plain inner cam bearings.
Caged bearings are more expensive to produce than full complement bearings, and the INA bearings are German-made, high quality bearings. Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
For me, the jury's still out, but I'm skeptical by nature. I still have some difficulty believing the full complement Torringtons are necessarily an upgrade, even though I put them in my bike at the last cam change. I don't think changing to the full complement Torringtons is a mistake, but I still don't believe it's absolutely necessary.
One of these days, we'll probably get plain inner cam bearings.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 934
Likes: 54
From: SE Wisconsin
[quote=boogaloodude;9294361]Here's the dissenting (minority) view.
Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
Interesting points made between the two bearings, I completely agree with the rpm vs load references.
The Full Complement style offers greater surface contact area resulting in a load more evenly spread, it is naturally better suited to distribute high loads. But the drawback is, greater contact area will result in the undesirable increased friction with high speeds.
The Caged style has less surface contact area is better suited for higher speeds, and lighter loads. But higher loads will result in much more pressure on smaller areas and eventual failure.
So, the question is, where in the spectrum does a Harley motor fall? Higher loads or higher rpms?
Something to consider, 5000 - 6000 rpms is not considered high speed. At least not in the world of bearings, especially when only done in short bursts. But the amount of load being trust around in these motors is worthy of being considered high, especially when a cam upgrade and other performance modifications are done.
Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
Interesting points made between the two bearings, I completely agree with the rpm vs load references.
The Full Complement style offers greater surface contact area resulting in a load more evenly spread, it is naturally better suited to distribute high loads. But the drawback is, greater contact area will result in the undesirable increased friction with high speeds.
The Caged style has less surface contact area is better suited for higher speeds, and lighter loads. But higher loads will result in much more pressure on smaller areas and eventual failure.
So, the question is, where in the spectrum does a Harley motor fall? Higher loads or higher rpms?
Something to consider, 5000 - 6000 rpms is not considered high speed. At least not in the world of bearings, especially when only done in short bursts. But the amount of load being trust around in these motors is worthy of being considered high, especially when a cam upgrade and other performance modifications are done.
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,488
Likes: 30
From: Maryland near DC
[quote=journeyman;9295061]
well, actually the cam turns at half that speed, which pushes the need for torringtons....what we don't know is the ratings of the 2 bearing and the forces applied to them..if the design ratings are lets say 500 psi for stock and 1000 psi for the torringtons and the cam bearings (in use) only have 400 psi peak then either bearing will work...but there are other factors involved such as lubrication, expansion etc...SO for me the best way to figure out which is best, is to use the wait and see method...i.e. I will wait and see if your motor breaks, and then I will make the change to mine to keep it from happening to mine...I understand that is not the correct way to do it from an engineering standpoint..but I ain't no stinkin' engineer, so its gutenuff for me....
Here's the dissenting (minority) view.
Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
Interesting points made between the two bearings, I completely agree with the rpm vs load references.
The Full Complement style offers greater surface contact area resulting in a load more evenly spread, it is naturally better suited to distribute high loads. But the drawback is, greater contact area will result in the undesirable increased friction with high speeds.
The Caged style has less surface contact area is better suited for higher speeds, and lighter loads. But higher loads will result in much more pressure on smaller areas and eventual failure.
So, the question is, where in the spectrum does a Harley motor fall? Higher loads or higher rpms?
Something to consider, 5000 - 6000 rpms is not considered high speed. At least not in the world of bearings, especially when only done in short bursts. But the amount of load being trust around in these motors is worthy of being considered high, especially when a cam upgrade and other performance modifications are done.
Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
Interesting points made between the two bearings, I completely agree with the rpm vs load references.
The Full Complement style offers greater surface contact area resulting in a load more evenly spread, it is naturally better suited to distribute high loads. But the drawback is, greater contact area will result in the undesirable increased friction with high speeds.
The Caged style has less surface contact area is better suited for higher speeds, and lighter loads. But higher loads will result in much more pressure on smaller areas and eventual failure.
So, the question is, where in the spectrum does a Harley motor fall? Higher loads or higher rpms?
Something to consider, 5000 - 6000 rpms is not considered high speed. At least not in the world of bearings, especially when only done in short bursts. But the amount of load being trust around in these motors is worthy of being considered high, especially when a cam upgrade and other performance modifications are done.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 98
From: Colorado Springs
Here's the dissenting (minority) view.
Caged bearings are more expensive to produce than full complement bearings, and the INA bearings are German-made, high quality bearings. Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
For me, the jury's still out, but I'm skeptical by nature. I still have some difficulty believing the full complement Torringtons are necessarily an upgrade, even though I put them in my bike at the last cam change. I don't think changing to the full complement Torringtons is a mistake, but I still don't believe it's absolutely necessary.
One of these days, we'll probably get plain inner cam bearings.
Caged bearings are more expensive to produce than full complement bearings, and the INA bearings are German-made, high quality bearings. Caged bearings allow more lubrication of the cam journal, and are designed for higher rpm applications. Full complement bearings are designed for applications where higher torque loads are encountered.
For me, the jury's still out, but I'm skeptical by nature. I still have some difficulty believing the full complement Torringtons are necessarily an upgrade, even though I put them in my bike at the last cam change. I don't think changing to the full complement Torringtons is a mistake, but I still don't believe it's absolutely necessary.
One of these days, we'll probably get plain inner cam bearings.
And what are your planning, or what have your done with this latest Cam change? Leave the old Torrington's, Mew Torrington's, or new INA?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,020
Likes: 69
From: Twin Cities, MN
I have a first generation Twinkie ('99) and my bearing started to fail at 10,000 miles but I caught it before it totally blew. It was making a pretty ugly racket! HD paid for the fix and at the time put in new cam tensioner shoes besides the bearings which was part of the warranty repair ket. Those bearings worked fine until I put in the HD SE Hydraulic kit and cams (Andrews 21 love them) at 55k miles. The bearings were fine but not the shoes! Caught that just in time also. I've been pretty lucky. And this engine runs like a top, love it.
Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 683
Likes: 3
From: Tallahassee, FL
Decided to do cams at about 60,000 miles on my 2005 Ultra. Mechanic said it was a good thing I did, because the inner cam bearings were going bad and were about to start chewing into the case. This would have meant a new case, meaning probably a new engine. I was lucky and caught it just in time.
Decided to do cams at about 60,000 miles on my 2005 Ultra. Mechanic said it was a good thing I did, because the inner cam bearings were going bad and were about to start chewing into the case. This would have meant a new case, meaning probably a new engine. I was lucky and caught it just in time.
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk, Va
With 17k miles on mine I started hearing a scraping sound in the lower end. Took it to an indy for cam bearings and tensioners. He called me last night and said he found very slight signs that the outer race of one had spun in the case. The case is still good but if I had riden much more I would have been BOHICA.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,730
Likes: 9,241
From: Snow Hill, NC
My INA bearings at about 50000 miles looked great but since i was in there i changed them...I was gonna put INA but for about the same money i put Torringtons...????no worries either way it's a new bearing.