Issue with Tuner

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Jan 26, 2012 | 05:28 PM

#21

iclick

Extreme HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2005

Posts: 11,615

Likes: 50

From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by amabeetle

Iclick, do you remember your early posts about PCV and fuel Moto maps and how they are pretty much spot on?

From my own personal experience and feedback I've seen here they are quite accurate.

Quote:

Then when you installed auto tune and went into some elevation you had hesitation and surging? Your report showed that the TP 15-40 had huge negative corrections at elevation with AT.

You have a good memory for details, and I didn't think about this old incident because the OP's problem was more at highway speeds while mine was right off-idle. In May 2009 I took a trip to NC and in the higher elevations I experienced a stumble while taking-off from a stop, which I isolated to the trim being created in that part of the table. I had no surging or abnormal behavior anywhere else in the operating range. It was at low-RPM and only in one or two cells of the table, showing an abnormally lean condition (-25 or -30, IIRC). I corrected it by turning-off AT at those points, and that corrected the problem. I didn't experience this in lower elevations but left the adjustment alone anyway from that point on. I had the 255 cams in the bike at that time and neither Jamie nor I ever quite got a handle on this. I also saw this at 0% TP upon decel, as I would get a very lean condition there too, around 2000 RPM. DJ recommends setting AT off at 0% for reasons unknown, possibly to avoid reversion issues.

I never figured that one out, but it didn't matter since it was fixed and didn't affect anything important in the tuning.

Quote:

I experienced the same thing and thought the OP described a similar condition??? I guess I missed the point, I do have auto tune corrections to my maps at elevation that fixed my hesitation then surging noticed especially when entering an on-ramp to freeway or roll-on passing.
If you could please clarify the difference for me so I can figure it out too, thanks much,

I'm not sure I can clarify, as some of these phenomena elude my ability to explain them.

Last edited by iclick; Jan 26, 2012 at 10:01 PM.

Jan 26, 2012 | 06:17 PM

#22

Mr HOG

Road Master

Joined: Apr 2010

Posts: 824

Likes: 2

From: O'fallon IL

Based solely on the OP's description i'd also say the clutch is slipping. If the engine revs go up, and clutch is fully disengaged, and bike speed does not respond accordingly, then it's clutch malfunction. However, it's unusual for the clutch to slip at highway speeds. More usual for clutch to slip during low speed high torque throttle.

Jan 26, 2012 | 06:27 PM

#23

dbell66253

Seasoned HDF Member

Joined: Dec 2009

Posts: 5,240

Likes: 10

From: South Florida

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr HOG

I would have to disagree with you on it being unusual for the clutch to slip at higher speeds. I don't know which thread it's in, but I and a couple of other people have had the same porblem show up in 5th gear at hwy speeds. BTW it was cured by adjusting the clutch.

Jan 26, 2012 | 06:42 PM

#24

Mr HOG

Road Master

Joined: Apr 2010

Posts: 824

Likes: 2

From: O'fallon IL

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbell66253

Understand. Just saying based on my experience, the clutch is more prone to slipe during higher torque periods - like when you're shifting rapidly through the gears. At highway speeds, in 5th or 6th gear, you are usually at the lower end of the torque band.

Jan 26, 2012 | 08:15 PM

#25

$tonecold

Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011

Posts: 4,708

Likes: 2,212

From: Gilbert, Az.

Quote:

Does it take more power to spin the rear wheel in 1st gear or 5th gear? 5th gear, just is case you didn't know. That is why speed increases quicker in 1st gear. If your clutch is going to slip it is more likely to do it in 5th than 1st gear. Also, at hiway speed you are at 2800 - 3200 rpm, usually about peak of the torque curve. I vote that the clutch is slipping and there is no other way that the engine can rev up and the speed not increase. If everything is right there should be a solid link from the crankshaft to the rear wheel with the only thing that would allow the engine to rev and speed not to increase would be the clutch not being fully engaged. There are other things, but since Harley now uses spline shafts there are few possibilities.

Jan 26, 2012 | 10:37 PM

#26

Deuuuce

Elite HDF Member

Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 3,766

Likes: 16

From: Roseville, CA

A bad fuel pump can have the same symptom.

Jan 26, 2012 | 11:01 PM

#27

$tonecold

Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011

Posts: 4,708

Likes: 2,212

From: Gilbert, Az.

Quote:

A bad fuel pump can have the same symptom.

So you're saying a bad fuel pump can make an engine rev up without putting power to the rear wheel when the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged?

Jan 26, 2012 | 11:16 PM

#28

Deuuuce

Elite HDF Member

Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 3,766

Likes: 16

From: Roseville, CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tonecold

So you're saying a bad fuel pump can make an engine rev up without putting power to the rear wheel when the bike is in gear and the clutch is engaged?

I seem to remember back in '95 or so something similar happening to me in my car manual transmission car. The rpms didn't climb but the noise did. The engine wouldn't produce the power, being starved for fuel.

Different then a slipping clutch, yes.

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Jan 26, 2012 | 11:45 PM

#29

Ragtop

Ultimate HDF Member

Joined: Sep 2006

Posts: 7,101

Likes: 1,013

I agree on the clutch slipping in high gear.
My 77 goldwing was fine in the first 3 gears when I got it, but slipped under hard throttle in 4th and 5th. The clutch was grossly misadjusted.

Plus, the OP said his painter had the clutch cable off.