If you read the article Hot Bikes Baggers did it goes through the whole process. We put the bike on the dyno without a tune just to see (we don't suggest anyone run their bike like this) and the power increase was 8 ft lbs of torque. When we tuned the bike, it had a 13 lb increase in torque. To give you a comparison, Vance & Hines and Rinehart give you 7 ft lbs of torque increase.

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.baggersmag.com/tech/1007_...tem/index.html

 

Problem is we need to hear um,need to post more sound clips

 

Which I would of known about you guys before I bought my Rineharts

 

Here is a link to a video with sound clips. I will get some more sound clips together and post. Thanks for the suggestion.
http://www.mgscustombikes.com/tech-videos/

 

We wish you did too! We used to swear by Rineharts until we made ours! Still a good product though. We have a trade-in program if you ever want to trade up. Happy Riding.

 

Oh, god no, that still gets posted and reposted all the time. You try and let people know it isn't true, but some guys just want to believe what they want to believe.

 

Hell yeah, I'm all about challeneging conventional wisdom, and I have no doubt that you have developed a fine system, but what myth are we talking about here? "Outperform any pipe out there", that is a powerful blanket claim, considering that different builds will react differently to a partucular exhaust design. It is an accurate statement that true duals generally make more HP, on the top side, which make them better suited for a maximum effort drag racing application, to keep pulling and making power to the red line. There is also no denying the effect of scavenging associated with a collector system or 2:1, they generally make more torque down low, which is more desireable to get a heavy touring bike moving under street ridden conditions. I'll be curious to see your documented "staggering" improvement over the thunderheader, But I highly doubt that one dyno comparison is going to convince me that everything I have ever learned or observed throughout all motorsports about exhaust design is wrong. Post what you got so we can see if your assessment was conducted under reasonably equitable conditions.

 

Very good comments. We don't expect our dyno-runs to convince you, but it does show where the power curve is and has been one of the leading methods for measuring power and tuning for performance gains. Attached is the dyno-chart from the thunder header 2-into-1 system vs the MGS True Dual system.

The myth we are talking about is that 2-into-1 systems give you more power than a true dual system. In the years we have been installing and tuning exhaust systems on Harley-Davidons we have yet to see that happen. And as you mentioned, 2-into-1 systems tend to drop power early in the power-band, which isn't a good thing when your twisting that throttle trying to pass a truck.
More than what the dyno-sheet says, the power you feel when riding speaks louder than anything. This is what leads us to make such a powerful blanket statement regarding the performance of our exhaust system. We have installed, tested, tuned, ridden just about every pipe on the market. We would love to have a pipe shoot-out with ALL of the manufacturers out there. The truth of the matter is, our competitors won't do it for fear of losing sales. We have tried to get some magazines to have a pipe shoot-out, to which we were told it wouldn't happen. You see, many of the big pipe manufacturers are the same people who pay the big bucks to those magazines in the way of ads and sponsorships. If they pissed off the wrong people, their magazine would have a hard time staying on the racks. We are so confident in our product, we are putting the truth out there. Our pipes will out-perform ANY pipes out there! The reason we can say this, is we have seen countless configurations of bikes, with all sorts of different pipes and have yet to see one that beat ours. Until one does beat ours, we will continue to say it.
As you pointed out, different builds will react differently to a particular exhaust system. What is so cool about ours, is that it performs well with all of them. Where our pipes may be beat is when someone goes crazy with modifications and builds a race motor. That would require a custom exhaust system (something we could provide by-the-way) that is tuned for the motor build. But your average rider won't go beyond intake, exhaust, power-commander. The ones that take it a step further may install cams, do head-work, and big-bore kits. Our pipes will perform well in all of those scenarios. For most, our pipes fit the bill.
Great comments, you obviously have a good knowledge-base on this topic. We love to 'talk shop' and strive to be on top of our game. Thanks for challenging the conventional wisdom. Enjoy the ride, that's the ultimate goal with us riders, and why we spend so much time discussing our obsessions with friends and on forums such as this one. Our hats off to all the enthusiasts out there.

 

Pretty sure I'm gonna like you, I appreciate your professionalism in discussing different points of view. I see you are also a tuning center, so I assume you tuned your pipe prior to the dyno run you posted, but did you also put the same effort into tuning the Thunderheader or is that run as the customer's bike came in the door, tuned by someone else? What are the details of this build, particularly displacement and cam? The peak numbers are about the same but the curve is considerably wider by 500 RPMs, it is impressive, but you'll have to forgive me for pursuing a properly designed 2:1, just as you have obviously properly designed and developed your true duals. Nice to see an honest perspective on exhaust manufacturers from an exhaust manufacturer. It's like an industry gentlemans agreement to not have a legitimate unbiased review to prevent revealing to the public that most of them are subpar, from a performance standpoint. The one thing that has always bothered me about exhaust manufacturers is that they don't publish primary tube diameter and length. I understand its unreasonable to ask the exact length of each section of a stepped header, and precision details, but it would be nice to know the section diameters and overall primary length. I'm pretty well occupied at the moment but I plan on building a 2:1 tuned to the sonic wave of a stock to mild cam. I want to play with the lengths to get the pulse spacing to alternate evenly when they meet in the collector. Getting closer to retirement every day and I'm looking to get into the cycyle aftermarket myself. I don't have a dyno but I do tune by O2 datalogging, although I can't quantify it, I can feel the difference when I make changes, and so far the 2:1 has made the most useable power for me. I look forward to your participation on the forum, thanks for your sponsorship.

 

I love what this thread has become! Very interesting... Still, not many options for '09 up true duals w/ the rear cylinder crossing directly out the left. Just sayin...