Advice on Starting issue
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 258
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From: Beach House on the moon
Advice on Starting issue
Alright, looking for a little help to trouble shoot an issue the stealer claimed they could not replicate while the bike was under warranty. When I try to start my 2010 RK (20,000 miles) in gear with the clutch pulled in I turn the switch to IGN, then hit the black button to run, wait until I don't hear the fuel pump and hit the starter button. It attempts to fire, makes the grr, grr, grr sound, the speedo goes blank like there is no power (i.e. all lights go off) and then dies (no sound at all). I let off the starter button, power comes back on and I hit the starter button again the bike fires right up.
If I try to start the bike in neutral it usually fires right up with no problems.
So, does this sound like a clutch engagement issue? Open to any suggestions because I am stumped on what to start pulling apart.
If I try to start the bike in neutral it usually fires right up with no problems.
So, does this sound like a clutch engagement issue? Open to any suggestions because I am stumped on what to start pulling apart.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
I think you may have a bad ground between the motor and the battery, or frame.
it is possible that the motor is finding ground through the clutch
the drivetrain is all rubber mounted- we have seen over the years smoking clutch cables when the ground is lost from the motor to the frame or battery.
so that's my guess
tell me what it ends up being
pt 2.
if the bike rolls well when in gear, clutch pulled motor off- don't worry about the clutch.
I have an 09, after looking at wiring diagrams, the clutch lock out switch goes t the TSSM- the problem may be there is the TSSM- any history of problems with the TSSM, or alarm ?
on the 09 the battery negative connects both to the starter and the frame/chassis- check that it is clean and tight
Mike
mike
it is possible that the motor is finding ground through the clutch
the drivetrain is all rubber mounted- we have seen over the years smoking clutch cables when the ground is lost from the motor to the frame or battery.
so that's my guess
tell me what it ends up being
pt 2.
if the bike rolls well when in gear, clutch pulled motor off- don't worry about the clutch.
I have an 09, after looking at wiring diagrams, the clutch lock out switch goes t the TSSM- the problem may be there is the TSSM- any history of problems with the TSSM, or alarm ?
on the 09 the battery negative connects both to the starter and the frame/chassis- check that it is clean and tight
Mike
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; May 7, 2012 at 10:25 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
I suspect either the positive or negative cable at either end as having a bad connection. It is most likely at the battery end. I have also seen this same type problem in an auto once and it was a intermittent connection inside the battery. I was checking water level in battery and saw it ark. Got real lucky it didn't explode. I also know motorcycle batteries are sealed gel cells so you can't see in them. When you try to start in gear it causes more drag on the starter motor and draws more amps, which causes the bad connection to open up. It will also get very hot at the bad connection. Try starting it a couple of times and feel the connections at each end of the cables and you may find the problem.
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Tourer
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Beach House on the moon
Alright. I double checked my connections on the battery and I could turn the screws but they were fairly tight to begin with so I snugged them up a little. In my WTF moment I did realize that I had my amp (which is in a metal box) located on top of the battery box. I don't think it could have made a connection and ground out the electric but I moved the amp to a sidecover anyway. So if that was the problem it has now been rectified. I guess I should have thought a little more before putting a metal box on top of the battery but hey "you can't fix stupid"
I then took a voltmeter to the battery and here are my results:
Immediately after disconnecting from Battery Tender:
Pigtail 13.05 V
Battery terminal 13.04V, @ 60 Sec 13.04 V, @ 120 sec 13.00 V
Bike on 13.02 V, after depressed starter 10.87 V, while running 12.99 V
2nd attempt Bike on 12.89 V, after depressed starter 10.66 V, while running 14.00 V
While running (1st Rev) 14.19 V, (2nd Rev) 14.19 V, (3rd Rev) 14.20 V
After sitting for 12 hours (off tender):
Pigtail 12.86 V, @ 60 Sec 12.86 V, @ 120 sec 12.84 V
Bike on 12.86 V, after depressed starter 10.89 V, while running 13.99 V
2nd attempt Bike on 12.84 V, after depressed starter 10.72 V, while running 14.01 V
While running (1st Rev) 14.33 V, (2nd Rev) 14.33 V, (3rd Rev) 14.33 V
So I am ruling out a weak battery as a cause. I haven't had a chance to test ride it since the changes (i.e moving the amp and tightening the battery bolts) but will report back if I am still having the issue. If so my assumption is the issue will likely be in the starter or the starter switch.
I then took a voltmeter to the battery and here are my results:
Immediately after disconnecting from Battery Tender:
Pigtail 13.05 V
Battery terminal 13.04V, @ 60 Sec 13.04 V, @ 120 sec 13.00 V
Bike on 13.02 V, after depressed starter 10.87 V, while running 12.99 V
2nd attempt Bike on 12.89 V, after depressed starter 10.66 V, while running 14.00 V
While running (1st Rev) 14.19 V, (2nd Rev) 14.19 V, (3rd Rev) 14.20 V
After sitting for 12 hours (off tender):
Pigtail 12.86 V, @ 60 Sec 12.86 V, @ 120 sec 12.84 V
Bike on 12.86 V, after depressed starter 10.89 V, while running 13.99 V
2nd attempt Bike on 12.84 V, after depressed starter 10.72 V, while running 14.01 V
While running (1st Rev) 14.33 V, (2nd Rev) 14.33 V, (3rd Rev) 14.33 V
So I am ruling out a weak battery as a cause. I haven't had a chance to test ride it since the changes (i.e moving the amp and tightening the battery bolts) but will report back if I am still having the issue. If so my assumption is the issue will likely be in the starter or the starter switch.
Last edited by TaterSaladonaRoadking; May 10, 2012 at 09:46 AM.
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