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107" Power Problems

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Old May 20, 2012 | 03:03 AM
  #11  
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Does your pipe have the concentric baffle?
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 04:09 AM
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I don't know anything about the tuner you are using but on SEPST and TTS tuners there are tuning constants that have to be set to match your bike's specifics or it'll never tune out properly, i.e. injector size.
If your tuner thinks your bike has 5.3 injectors, the squirt of fuel will be a lot shorter duration vs if it thinks you have 4.3's. Could be the reason you're adjusting your air to fuel at 13/1 and the results are 13.8/1???

Timing profiles need to match the cams you are using as well.
 

Last edited by scj; May 20, 2012 at 04:15 AM.
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Old May 20, 2012 | 06:11 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by $tonecold
I'm hoping someone else maybe has had this problem and knows the solution. I have a 107ci with stage II heads, 10.6:1 comp., TR590 cams, D&D Boss pipes. This has been an on going problem that I have spent much money and time trying to solve. Basically it only makes 104Tq/96hp. It starts off strong with between 90 & 95 ft/lbs at 2500 rpm and it hits 100 ft/lbs between 2800 & 3250. After that it just seems like it flattens out and won't make any more power. Gets to 102-104 and thats it. I have tried two different tuners and the results are close to the same. I am currently using a TMax. When I was dynoing today making changes to the AFR it didn't seem to affect the power output to any degree. I'm thinking that it may be a fuel problem. If so, is it electronics or is it injectors? If I replace injectors do I stay with stock or go with 5.3's? Is it possible that there is a broken wire in the harness that is affecting the fuel? I would really appreciate anyone that has had similar problems letting me know how they solved it.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/

Call or email these guys, they WILL get you squared away.
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 07:18 AM
  #14  
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The tune is all wrong. You don't need a lot except a tune and maybe a different pipe. The boss is for big builds. I'd contact zippers and try to get a better set up to start with.
The afr line is not even close to what you need. It's way to rich. Heck; buy the looks of it you don't need bigger injectors just a pipe and tuned
 

Last edited by Tn.Heritage; May 20, 2012 at 07:22 AM.
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Old May 20, 2012 | 07:30 AM
  #15  
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From looking at the dyno graph the a/f ratio is all screwed up. That combo should make 105/115 easy.

loose the tmax and get yourself a tts tuner.
 

Last edited by sporacer; May 20, 2012 at 07:32 AM.
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Old May 20, 2012 | 08:48 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by sporacer
From looking at the dyno graph the a/f ratio is all screwed up. That combo should make 105/115 easy.

loose the tmax and get yourself a tts tuner.
Originally Posted by Tn.Heritage
The tune is all wrong. You don't need a lot except a tune and maybe a different pipe. The boss is for big builds. I'd contact zippers and try to get a better set up to start with.
The afr line is not even close to what you need. It's way to rich. Heck; buy the looks of it you don't need bigger injectors just a pipe and tuned
+1 Listen to this advice and also maybe call Fuel Moto or one of the other tuner houses. Like sporacer said, 105/115 easy with your throttle body and injectors. I run a 107" with stock heads, throttle body and injectors at 103/122. I will do the heads this fall and still leave the throttle body and injectors stock, I have no worries these will perform fine. Get a good tune on it and flatten out the AFR, then get back to us.
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 11:48 AM
  #17  
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I run a 107" with stock heads, throttle body and injectors at 103/122.
And that is my problem, you haven't done close to what I have done and yet you are making way better power.
I appreciate all the feed back, but let me give you a little history on this build.

The bottom line is when I did a 103 upgrade with a TW-6-6 cam and stock heads, D&D Boss exhaust. I was expecting reasonable TQ in the 110 ft/lb range and HP high 90's low 100's. This was with the TMax. When we couldn't get any better numbers the tuner did a comp check and leak down, low comp, but leak down good. I figured the bore job was the problem, tuner suggested going to 107".
Top line is 107", stage II lite heads, TW6-6 cam, D&D Boss, TMax. Also had the crank straightened, balanced, welded, & left Timkens installed. I was not pleased with the gain. Compression was good although the head chambers were 92cc's putting it in the 160 psi range. Not outside the ability to make power.


So here I re-did things again, went with stage II heads, TR590 cam, D&D Boss, and an EMS tuner. The dyno is showing a very rich condition so I sent the EMS in to have it reprogrammed.

I got the EMS back and as you can see not much changed. My thought now is try a different tuning device which some of you have suggested.

These are dyno runs from yesterday, the condition is now lean. The TMax is programmed at 13.0:1 to 13.2:1 throughout the full throttle position. Changing the map didn't seem to have much of an effect on the AFR.
What I see in all of these maps is that the torque line is relatively flat. I know some of that is the kind of graph used, but the numbers are relatively flat also. 90 ft/lbs. of tq is about where most builds like this are at 2500 rpm. I am not against a different tuning devise and/or tuner, but I have talked with people with my same build (different, but similar heads) using an EMS that are making tq in the mid 120's and hp in the low 120's. I'm not saying I am looking for those numbers, but I didn't go to all this trouble to be making tq in the low 100's and hp in the 90's. Because of the flat tq line in every graph I am questioning whether there is an underlying problem in the intake/injection system or somewhere else that is not letting the power come up in the mid-ranges.
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 01:43 PM
  #18  
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I think the D&D is holding it back.
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 02:34 PM
  #19  
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I would say your numbers didn't change much but if you look in the 1500-2500 range the major dip is gone. That is normally cause by a restrictive exhaust.I think who ever is giving you this tmax programming is not giving you a proper tune. Shouldn't the afr being running around 14.1 for the appropriate mixture. I would also say the programming dumper more fuel to compensate for the dive your exhaust is creating.
 
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Old May 20, 2012 | 03:14 PM
  #20  
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I think the D&D is holding it back.
I also used a different pipe with no appreciable difference.
I would say your numbers didn't change much but if you look in the 1500-2500 range the major dip is gone.
The dip is usually caused by a lean condition when your throttle plate opens before fuel delivery rises. The reason the dip is gone is because the dyno operator was loading the motor with the eddy current and releasing it when he went to test. Neat trick, but it didn't solve anything.
 
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