Tuning
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 239
Likes: 7
From: KCK
I'd think with those narrow band 02 sensors you have a small amount of change possible if any without some type of re-mapping of the ECM.
Any change would be limited to the minimum and or maximum of what those 02 sensors are capable of 'change'.
I don't know for sure if a stock ECM has the true ability or capability to make changes automatically without being computer re-mapped? I'd think it's like a dum terminal pre-programed and has to be re-programed or re-loaded for any changes to really take effect? Simplistic...I don't know if a stock ECM can 'learn or change automatically' and if it can...then it's limited by the narrow band 02 limits it's reading.
Not to open another can of worms since so many on here you will find that have cut cats out, drilled out mufflers, replaced breathers and ride like they stole it with no problems? To each their own or whatever floats your boat?
I never had no luck with the in-line 'tricksters method' myself. Still had a lot of popping or intake burping on decel, whatever? I opted for a new ECM that I could program and or that auto-tuned. It's a pricey method but for 'myself' it's like night and day as far as I'm concerned it made huge difference all around for the better IMHO.
I chased my tail around on decel popping and intake burping myself until I replaced the ECM and went with an auto tuner. I haven't looked back and glad I did.
BTW Fuelmoto comes up a lot on here and from what I've seen you won't be disappointed with them and their selections/products and/or customer service.
Any change would be limited to the minimum and or maximum of what those 02 sensors are capable of 'change'.
I don't know for sure if a stock ECM has the true ability or capability to make changes automatically without being computer re-mapped? I'd think it's like a dum terminal pre-programed and has to be re-programed or re-loaded for any changes to really take effect? Simplistic...I don't know if a stock ECM can 'learn or change automatically' and if it can...then it's limited by the narrow band 02 limits it's reading.
Not to open another can of worms since so many on here you will find that have cut cats out, drilled out mufflers, replaced breathers and ride like they stole it with no problems? To each their own or whatever floats your boat?
I never had no luck with the in-line 'tricksters method' myself. Still had a lot of popping or intake burping on decel, whatever? I opted for a new ECM that I could program and or that auto-tuned. It's a pricey method but for 'myself' it's like night and day as far as I'm concerned it made huge difference all around for the better IMHO.
I chased my tail around on decel popping and intake burping myself until I replaced the ECM and went with an auto tuner. I haven't looked back and glad I did.
BTW Fuelmoto comes up a lot on here and from what I've seen you won't be disappointed with them and their selections/products and/or customer service.
Last edited by Biker John; Jan 2, 2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: wording
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 679
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
Now I will ask you this...I have V-Tune files that clearly show both AE & DE active while in closed loop. How can this be? Could the data be corrupt? Could the program have a fault? Could Steve, Doc, or I all be wrong by saying that sometimes, both AE & DE can be active in closed loop? Or could AE & DE ever (there's that word) actually be active even in closed loop?
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Sparta, GA
I was under the impression that in the Delphi ECM that AE and DE were active based upon throttle position changes regardless of the open loop / closed loop state. Also, O2 Sensor data is always collected as long as the sensors are in range ( enough exhaust gas present to generate a meaningful voltage). Its also interesting to note that with the 2010's and later that the maximum fuel mixture that can be maintained in closed loop is 14.34 (Not including the afore mentioned AE / DE part of the equation )
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 679
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
I was under the impression that in the Delphi ECM that AE and DE were active based upon throttle position changes regardless of the open loop / closed loop state. Also, O2 Sensor data is always collected as long as the sensors are in range ( enough exhaust gas present to generate a meaningful voltage). Its also interesting to note that with the 2010's and later that the maximum fuel mixture that can be maintained in closed loop is 14.34 (Not including the afore mentioned AE / DE part of the equation )
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Sparta, GA
Lonewolf
So when I go into my tts and see a setting of .977 being the lowest before it changes to open loop which fuel is it calculating against? It makes sense that changing the fuel would change these values and I would assume that this is one of the many benefits of closed loop (adapting to fuel differences between tanks) Cool! you learn something everyday!
So when I go into my tts and see a setting of .977 being the lowest before it changes to open loop which fuel is it calculating against? It makes sense that changing the fuel would change these values and I would assume that this is one of the many benefits of closed loop (adapting to fuel differences between tanks) Cool! you learn something everyday!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,469
Likes: 679
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
Any fuel. The stoich of any fuel is 1. If you use the o2 sensor voltage calculator you will see that the lambda and o2 mv values will stay the same for any fuel. It is only the afr value that changes.
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