Tuning
Intermediate
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Sparta, GA
The difference on my 2012 103 was less than 2 percent difference in volumetric efficiency from factory 2-1-2 to true duals. The 2010 and later ecm's with the Delphi O2 sensors ( small sized ones ) should be able to easily compensate for this (harley claims it can compensate for a +\- 5% change in Volumetric Efficiency). By changing ac and exhaust the bike will run no less rich than it did stock, this is not to say that you shouldn't purchase either a tuner or a less expensive and equally good solution for a stage 1 bike would be the download to advance timing and xieds to richen closed loop, and to a lesser extent open loop ( accomplished by the Adaptive Fuel Value tables after riding for a tank of gas or two)
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 169
Likes: 1
From: Fort Pierce, Florida
Once Again It's Quite Evident Lot's Of Members Here Are Still Drinking The Koolaid That's Served From LOT'S of the Advertisers On This Forum!
Glad To See Some Members Have Enough Common Sense To See/Know The Actual Truth Of The Later ECM's, Which Can Compensate For Much More Than The Advertisers Here Really Want You To Know
Glad To See Some Members Have Enough Common Sense To See/Know The Actual Truth Of The Later ECM's, Which Can Compensate For Much More Than The Advertisers Here Really Want You To Know
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 16
From: Roseville, CA
Once Again It's Quite Evident Lot's Of Members Here Are Still Drinking The Koolaid That's Served From LOT'S of the Advertisers On This Forum!
Glad To See Some Members Have Enough Common Sense To See/Know The Actual Truth Of The Later ECM's, Which Can Compensate For Much More Than The Advertisers Here Really Want You To Know
Glad To See Some Members Have Enough Common Sense To See/Know The Actual Truth Of The Later ECM's, Which Can Compensate For Much More Than The Advertisers Here Really Want You To Know
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,934
Likes: 43
From: Bloomfield, NM
I tried letting the factory ECM compensate for the Stage 1 because my dealer told me that it would. He was not trying to sell me anything. The ECM will compensate if you don't mind excessive heat, pinging like a coffee can full of marbles, and the thing going into heat management mode in 85* temps. Pour some cool-aid on that puppy and cool it down.
In reality, these things are so lean from the factory because of EPA, that they need a tune right out of the box. Any change in air flow in going to just make things worse.
Your choice, but a pre-tuned Power Commander V from FuelMoto is only 300 dollars, and there is a big difference in how the bike responds, runs, and the temps that it puts out.
Bill
In reality, these things are so lean from the factory because of EPA, that they need a tune right out of the box. Any change in air flow in going to just make things worse.
Your choice, but a pre-tuned Power Commander V from FuelMoto is only 300 dollars, and there is a big difference in how the bike responds, runs, and the temps that it puts out.
Bill
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,007
Likes: 353
From: Ohio
The ECM can only compensate while the bike is in closed loop mode. That is usually only when cruising at a steady speed. If the air flow (AC) is increased from what the stock bike was set for (factory stock ECM calibration), the engine will often run leaner than you'd like. So you might need to change your calibration for a less restrictive AC. But that's not usually considered "tuning".
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
The ECM can only compensate while the bike is in closed loop mode. That is usually only when cruising at a steady speed. If the air flow (AC) is increased from what the stock bike was set for (factory stock ECM calibration), the engine will often run leaner than you'd like. So you might need to change your calibration for a less restrictive AC. But that's not usually considered "tuning".
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
Replaced my totaled FXD with 2013 FLH Classic.
Was going to put K&N air filter on but told by dealer I would need to retune the engine. Anyone know if this is true? Harley makes EFI engines for anywhere in the country. Denver to Miami with considerable air difference between the two. Wouldn't the on board controller automatically adjust?
Why would a retune be necessary on a computer controlled engine?
Anyone have any thoughts to share?
This is a new one for mr!
Was going to put K&N air filter on but told by dealer I would need to retune the engine. Anyone know if this is true? Harley makes EFI engines for anywhere in the country. Denver to Miami with considerable air difference between the two. Wouldn't the on board controller automatically adjust?
Why would a retune be necessary on a computer controlled engine?
Anyone have any thoughts to share?
This is a new one for mr!
(a) Do you need to re-tune...probably not. But without knowing the state of your bike's current tune, even a completely stock bike would benefit from proper tuning (and I don't mean those add-on devices that trick the system).
(b) Will the ECM compensate? Assuming all components are working correctly, compensation will take place. The kicker is if the data is too far out of the program's parameters, the compensation may go the wrong direction.
(c) There are many different sensors and tables used by the ECM. Focusing on just the AFR (your bike does not use AFR) or VE's is a very incomplete picture.
You asked what appeared to be a fairly straightforward question but there is a bit more to it then that. Continue to read, understand, and apply the correct info and you'll be much further ahead of the game.
Good luck!
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MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
The ECM can only compensate while the bike is in closed loop mode. That is usually only when cruising at a steady speed. If the air flow (AC) is increased from what the stock bike was set for (factory stock ECM calibration), the engine will often run leaner than you'd like. So you might need to change your calibration for a less restrictive AC. But that's not usually considered "tuning".
* The ECM WILL compensate in both open and closed loop.
* Closed loop is certainly NOT "...only when cruising at a steady speed..."
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,078
Likes: 0
From: Iowa
Yeah closed loop is simply when the engine meets the parameters of being warmed up... Not sure what only when cruising at steady speed has to do with anything?