Looking for help and guideance on an engine swap
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Stage IV
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Apex NC
Looking for help and guideance on an engine swap
Like the title says, I am looking for someone with extensive knowledge of an 86 Ultra and a 2004 Road King. I have an 86 FLH with a very ugly engine, it was left outside and looks nasty. It runs decent but the tranny also has some issues. I have found a 2004 1450 from a Road King with 21,000 miles, and is fuel injected. I got the wiring harness, complete with ECM and all, the engine, transmission, and primary/secondary all complete. I know it will require some modification to the frame to bolt the engine in, was hoping to get info on other mods required, like fuel delivery, ignition, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
oh jeez.
big job modifying the frame.
get a twin cam frame which will have the correct mounts for the motor and transmission and the tranny to the swingarm.
the twin cam was a real design change- not as simple as an evo/shovel/pan/knuck swap as they all had same basic configuration
cheapest route for you is buying an evo motor---cheaper than all the mods you are looking at to fit the twin cam.
mike
big job modifying the frame.
get a twin cam frame which will have the correct mounts for the motor and transmission and the tranny to the swingarm.
the twin cam was a real design change- not as simple as an evo/shovel/pan/knuck swap as they all had same basic configuration
cheapest route for you is buying an evo motor---cheaper than all the mods you are looking at to fit the twin cam.
mike
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 525
Likes: 2
From: San Diego
Why?? The best thing about your current bike right now is that it is EVO powered... That's a lot of trouble and money to put in a motor that will be less reliable..
Re build the EVO and trans for pennies on the dollar compared to your engine swap and have a better, more reliable bike.. you will also retain more resale value, someone looking for an 86 will want the EVO motor, not a TC..
If you aren't a fabricator with the knowledge and tools to make that swap, it will be very expensive and give you no real return in the end..
Sell that TC and build that EVO and enjoy the same power with greater reliability..
Keep in mind, you are going to have to drop $1000, into that 04 TC just to fix the sad excuse for a cam drive setup before you even start the project.. That is if it can even be done without first correcting excessive crank runout..
For a final killer, you will be adding 75 pounds to the bike as well, not to mention complexity..
Not trying to be a buzz kill, but I don't think this swap will work out for you in the end.. You could buy a used TC touring bike for cheaper that this mod you seek, even though you already bought the drivetrain.... sell it
Re build the EVO and trans for pennies on the dollar compared to your engine swap and have a better, more reliable bike.. you will also retain more resale value, someone looking for an 86 will want the EVO motor, not a TC..
If you aren't a fabricator with the knowledge and tools to make that swap, it will be very expensive and give you no real return in the end..
Sell that TC and build that EVO and enjoy the same power with greater reliability..
Keep in mind, you are going to have to drop $1000, into that 04 TC just to fix the sad excuse for a cam drive setup before you even start the project.. That is if it can even be done without first correcting excessive crank runout..
For a final killer, you will be adding 75 pounds to the bike as well, not to mention complexity..
Not trying to be a buzz kill, but I don't think this swap will work out for you in the end.. You could buy a used TC touring bike for cheaper that this mod you seek, even though you already bought the drivetrain.... sell it
Last edited by Gigawitz; Jan 3, 2013 at 02:21 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 538
Likes: 3
From: Florida
I agree with all the other posts. You can have that motor remaned through harley or buy a crate motor and replace the gearset for probably less $$$ then that twinkie drivertrain and all necessary parts (ignition module,wiring,fuel pump/tank,etc) will cost.. plus you save the headache of cutting/fabricating your frame for the new drivetrain.
If you are dead set on using the twinkie motor, there is an adapter plate to mount it to an evo transmission. You could then put the internals of the twinkie transmission into the evo transmission case (i have a 2005 transmission in my 90 case) and you could put the clutch basket/compensator/chain from the twinkie into your evo primary chaincase (you will need a 66tooth ring gear kit to make the clutch basket fit in your evo primary). This all saves you from having to modify the frame for the new trans case and oil pan. And while that sounds simple, there are quite a few odds and ends, to many for me to think of off the top of my head, to help cause headache along the way.
I only did the primary/transmission swap to my 90 because the twinkie parts i had were free, i still suggest buying evo parts ESPECIALLY THE MOTOR. That 04 left side crank bearing and crankshaft are bad news.
If you are dead set on using the twinkie motor, there is an adapter plate to mount it to an evo transmission. You could then put the internals of the twinkie transmission into the evo transmission case (i have a 2005 transmission in my 90 case) and you could put the clutch basket/compensator/chain from the twinkie into your evo primary chaincase (you will need a 66tooth ring gear kit to make the clutch basket fit in your evo primary). This all saves you from having to modify the frame for the new trans case and oil pan. And while that sounds simple, there are quite a few odds and ends, to many for me to think of off the top of my head, to help cause headache along the way.
I only did the primary/transmission swap to my 90 because the twinkie parts i had were free, i still suggest buying evo parts ESPECIALLY THE MOTOR. That 04 left side crank bearing and crankshaft are bad news.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 7
From: Daytona, Fla.
Like the title says, I am looking for someone with extensive knowledge of an 86 Ultra and a 2004 Road King. I have an 86 FLH with a very ugly engine, it was left outside and looks nasty. It runs decent but the tranny also has some issues. I have found a 2004 1450 from a Road King with 21,000 miles, and is fuel injected. I got the wiring harness, complete with ECM and all, the engine, transmission, and primary/secondary all complete. I know it will require some modification to the frame to bolt the engine in, was hoping to get info on other mods required, like fuel delivery, ignition, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Harley transmissions are close to bullet proof, so I'll bet yours can be fixed up for very little expense. While you have it apart bead blast the ugly parts, spray some more wrinkle black, & the whole thing looks good.
You'll do 1/10 the work & have a machine that's 100% more reliable.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,687
Likes: 9
From: SoCal & West TN
Like the title says, I am looking for someone with extensive knowledge of an 86 Ultra and a 2004 Road King. I have an 86 FLH with a very ugly engine, it was left outside and looks nasty. It runs decent but the tranny also has some issues. I have found a 2004 1450 from a Road King with 21,000 miles, and is fuel injected. I got the wiring harness, complete with ECM and all, the engine, transmission, and primary/secondary all complete. I know it will require some modification to the frame to bolt the engine in, was hoping to get info on other mods required, like fuel delivery, ignition, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
First, '86 did not have an Ultra Model.
Second, the motor assembly may fit the frame, but it would need many modifications. One main thing is the rear brake master cylinder. On the '86, the master cylinder is inside the frame along beside the transmission. When the oil tank was moved under the transmission, Harley moved it forward. But three model years later moved it outside and forward of the footboard. Another difference is the rear brake reservoir location. Then the oil filter was moved from under the transmission to it's present location.
That is just the few I can remember off the top of my head. I would just rebuild/Remanufacture the motor.
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Stage IV
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 4
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From: Apex NC
Wow, it looks like I jumped in the deep end without knowing what I was doing....LOL That explains why that set-up only cost me $1000.00. I guess I'll be putting it up for sale. I actually had no idea there were so many major differences in the 2. I know there would be some, but WOW.
Also, let me get the facts straight, this is an 85' Electra Glide, sorry for calling it an Ultra. The engine is in really bad shape outside. I was planning on completely disassembling it and painting it all black with the wrinkle paint as was suggested. I guess I'm back to that plan. I need to do alot of research it appears. Thanks for all of the info. That's what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear though.....LOL I'm backing up and re-grouping. Anyone looking for and an 04' Twinkie for $1000.00?
Also, let me get the facts straight, this is an 85' Electra Glide, sorry for calling it an Ultra. The engine is in really bad shape outside. I was planning on completely disassembling it and painting it all black with the wrinkle paint as was suggested. I guess I'm back to that plan. I need to do alot of research it appears. Thanks for all of the info. That's what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear though.....LOL I'm backing up and re-grouping. Anyone looking for and an 04' Twinkie for $1000.00?
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Joined: Jun 2012
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From: CT/FL
FWIW, years ago I bought an old 82 shovel motor bike that had sat outside for years. Every piece of aluminum on the bike and motor was chalky white. But I disassembled everything and with some fine sandpaper and polishing wheels I shined everything up, including the heads and cases. Cleaned the jugs and painted them too. If you are going to go through the whole motor you might take this opportunity to make it unique. Joe