Suspension gurus- Loading question:
Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
I'm just tired of throwing good money after bad you know?
I appreciate your advice. Thank you.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Offer
Thank you for your input Howard.
I completely understand how suspension works.
I stated that the Ohlins were undersprung. Which the particular shocks I had indeed were for a two-up load. I understand spring rate just carries the load. The dampening is a separate issue.
My comment was that the adjustable dampening seemed to have enough range of adjustment to overcome a much stiffer spring rate (and lighter, for that matter). Apparently I need to be more specific when typing a post, as implications cannot often bee seen when reading a post. So, in short, the shock itself could be adjusted to compensate for a spring with a higher spring rate, or lower spring rate should I choose to change it out. Of course you know that too little dampening with a stiff spring results in a pogo effect. I've spent many hours adjusting preload and clicker adjustments to get the ride quality I desired.
So far in this thread, I've received some insightful comments from several members. Only grbrown has actually directly answered my question, which was:
How big of a weight difference can a coil-over shock setup compensate for?
And according to him, a 250lb swing is not an issue for his set of Ohlins.
So far with the Legends, I've noticed that while the spring rate is almost infinite, the dampening is best suited to very heavy loads. Only if there was a clicker adjustment on the Legends...
I'm not opposed to the purchase of another set of Ohlins or JRI's. I just want to know the set can cover the weight difference and provide a good ride both solo and two-up.
I completely understand how suspension works.
I stated that the Ohlins were undersprung. Which the particular shocks I had indeed were for a two-up load. I understand spring rate just carries the load. The dampening is a separate issue.
My comment was that the adjustable dampening seemed to have enough range of adjustment to overcome a much stiffer spring rate (and lighter, for that matter). Apparently I need to be more specific when typing a post, as implications cannot often bee seen when reading a post. So, in short, the shock itself could be adjusted to compensate for a spring with a higher spring rate, or lower spring rate should I choose to change it out. Of course you know that too little dampening with a stiff spring results in a pogo effect. I've spent many hours adjusting preload and clicker adjustments to get the ride quality I desired.
So far in this thread, I've received some insightful comments from several members. Only grbrown has actually directly answered my question, which was:
How big of a weight difference can a coil-over shock setup compensate for?
And according to him, a 250lb swing is not an issue for his set of Ohlins.
So far with the Legends, I've noticed that while the spring rate is almost infinite, the dampening is best suited to very heavy loads. Only if there was a clicker adjustment on the Legends...
I'm not opposed to the purchase of another set of Ohlins or JRI's. I just want to know the set can cover the weight difference and provide a good ride both solo and two-up.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
You may be looking for something that just is not possible. Sometimes compromise and realizing it is what it is brings acceptance.
I rode 4 different BMW's for the 20 plus years before getting my road king. I also borrowed, other bikes. By far the best riding suspension bike is a GS BMW.
I rode 600 - 750 mile days on BMW and felt better than a 300 mile day on my road king. The road king was grinding parts on corners during the break in period.
That said, I still like the road king over the BMW because I changed what I was looking for which is more laid back shorter trip cruising and I found the perfect bike to match it.
I put Ricors in the front and it made the back stand out terrible. I put Ricors in the back and am now wondering about the seat. I also realize I am chasing something this bike will not do which is be comfortable when compared to other bikes. But I still want the road king for what it is.
I rode 4 different BMW's for the 20 plus years before getting my road king. I also borrowed, other bikes. By far the best riding suspension bike is a GS BMW.
I rode 600 - 750 mile days on BMW and felt better than a 300 mile day on my road king. The road king was grinding parts on corners during the break in period.
That said, I still like the road king over the BMW because I changed what I was looking for which is more laid back shorter trip cruising and I found the perfect bike to match it.
I put Ricors in the front and it made the back stand out terrible. I put Ricors in the back and am now wondering about the seat. I also realize I am chasing something this bike will not do which is be comfortable when compared to other bikes. But I still want the road king for what it is.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Same Shocks
You may be looking for something that just is not possible. Sometimes compromise and realizing it is what it is brings acceptance.
I rode 4 different BMW's for the 20 plus years before getting my road king. I also borrowed, other bikes. By far the best riding suspension bike is a GS BMW.
I rode 600 - 750 mile days on BMW and felt better than a 300 mile day on my road king. The road king was grinding parts on corners during the break in period.
That said, I still like the road king over the BMW because I changed what I was looking for which is more laid back shorter trip cruising and I found the perfect bike to match it.
I put Ricors in the front and it made the back stand out terrible. I put Ricors in the back and am now wondering about the seat. I also realize I am chasing something this bike will not do which is be comfortable when compared to other bikes. But I still want the road king for what it is.
I rode 4 different BMW's for the 20 plus years before getting my road king. I also borrowed, other bikes. By far the best riding suspension bike is a GS BMW.
I rode 600 - 750 mile days on BMW and felt better than a 300 mile day on my road king. The road king was grinding parts on corners during the break in period.
That said, I still like the road king over the BMW because I changed what I was looking for which is more laid back shorter trip cruising and I found the perfect bike to match it.
I put Ricors in the front and it made the back stand out terrible. I put Ricors in the back and am now wondering about the seat. I also realize I am chasing something this bike will not do which is be comfortable when compared to other bikes. But I still want the road king for what it is.
To answer the OP's question, the spring is there only to overcome gravity. That's it. I do not know the weight difference between one up and two up I have successfully installed many up to a 200 pound passenger (more than the one up rider). If the rider is in the mid 150 ~180# mark and wishes to put on more than a 175# passenger for a 70% single & 30% two up situation than a second set of alternative springs are necessary. Trucks have air bags the same as the shocks currently on your bike. Trucks will ride like a truck with that technology. That is the options available when hauling around more weight than
If anyone has been around here for any length of time they would remember the development if that subject was of interest to them. The same HD-#3~#3 is the same shocks that the OP had on his bike. The OP can get his bike to ride as good as a Harley can within the limitations of these Ohlins shocks. This means that these shocks need to have proper adjustment. If this customer would visit me either at my Florida address of one of the shows I am attending, I can guarantee 100% satisfaction within the limitations of the Ohlins #3~#3 shocks.
Last edited by FastHarley; Jul 15, 2013 at 08:22 AM.
Former Sponsor
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,360
Likes: 453
From: Davie, FL
Customer number
I have spent the last 2 1/2 hours trying to find anything related to JCleary under your name in my customer data base. I am trying to research your shock and build sheet. I can not find anything with the name of J anything Cleary. Please e-Mail me your name and any other information you may have such as customer number, approximate date of sale, customer name it was bought under, or any scrap of help. I take customer satisfaction very seriously. As of now I have no record of your sale from me/motorcyclemetal.com. Please help me help you.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
After I was with Ohlins for a while developing and promoting Ohlins shocks, once I was done with what they had available for HD's I proposed and Ohlins responded by making my first shock to add to the HD shock line-up. I took a BMW R 1200 front shock & fitted by modifying the parts Ohlins had available and fitted it to a Harley. The first one was a HD_909 A.K.A. HD #3~#3. These are the same shocks except for the actual dimensions, shim pack (valving), orientation, and mounting. The BMW Ohlins version is many times better than the stock O.E.M. BMW suspension. That is correct, no difference.
To answer the OP's question, the spring is there only to overcome gravity. That's it. I do not know the weight difference between one up and two up I have successfully installed many up to a 200 pound passenger (more than the one up rider). If the rider is in the mid 150 ~180# mark and wishes to put on more than a 175# passenger for a 70% single & 30% two up situation than a second set of alternative springs are necessary. Trucks have air bags the same as the shocks currently on your bike. Trucks will ride like a truck with that technology. That is the options available when hauling around more weight than
If anyone has been around here for any length of time they would remember the development if that subject was of interest to them. The same HD-#3~#3 is the same shocks that the OP had on his bike. The OP can get his bike to ride as good as a Harley can within the limitations of these Ohlins shocks. This means that these shocks need to have proper adjustment. If this customer would visit me either at my Florida address of one of the shows I am attending, I can guarantee 100% satisfaction within the limitations of the Ohlins #3~#3 shocks.
To answer the OP's question, the spring is there only to overcome gravity. That's it. I do not know the weight difference between one up and two up I have successfully installed many up to a 200 pound passenger (more than the one up rider). If the rider is in the mid 150 ~180# mark and wishes to put on more than a 175# passenger for a 70% single & 30% two up situation than a second set of alternative springs are necessary. Trucks have air bags the same as the shocks currently on your bike. Trucks will ride like a truck with that technology. That is the options available when hauling around more weight than
If anyone has been around here for any length of time they would remember the development if that subject was of interest to them. The same HD-#3~#3 is the same shocks that the OP had on his bike. The OP can get his bike to ride as good as a Harley can within the limitations of these Ohlins shocks. This means that these shocks need to have proper adjustment. If this customer would visit me either at my Florida address of one of the shows I am attending, I can guarantee 100% satisfaction within the limitations of the Ohlins #3~#3 shocks.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 364
Likes: 2
From: Strong Island NY
Great customer service Howard!!! I'll be calling very soon for recommendations (09 Streetglide). Gotta do some home work first...I'm a newbee at this.
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Thread Starter
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
Thanks for all the advice. I may be calling, Howard. I'd like to visit in Florida or at a rally, but it's a bit far for me to ride unless I'm laid off or retired. As far as the old shocks are concerned, they're gone along with my old bike.
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
I guess my point originally was more along the lines that you can work and rework shocks all you want but there will be a point of diminishing returns as the rest of the bike may become the limiting factor. There is just so much a shock can do and there is a point where future enhancement is not going to give the payback wanted. What made the GS ride so different had more to do with the rest of the bike than the shocks.
As for GSs, Mrs B and I travelled with several of them through Europe for 2,500 miles on our old Glide. The remarkable thing to us, from the comfort of our #3-3 Ohlins, was how much they all got blown around in cross winds and how often they changed gear. I don't think they represent any standard a Glide cannot be compared with - after a few modest improvements!
