Is a tuner needed?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 45
From: Indian Land, SC
Being as opinions are like a**holes, here is mine. NO! The stock ECM has the ability to make incremental adjustments to the way you ride. Not to offend the naysayers, but my 20+yr HD tech who just recently went to HD corporates Dyno school, says anyone with a piggyback system will end up having troubles. He recommended having the stock ECM adjusted through dyno tuning to get the best and longest lasting results. But he also said with air filter and slip on's, tuning wasn't necessary, it would adjust itself. However with no cats, that might cold make a bit of difference. Some here believe in the XID's but I have no experience with anything that new. Lol
My $0.03 and am sticking with it!
aka Bob
My $0.03 and am sticking with it!
aka Bob
It's not like there's a slot in the side of it for a screwdriver to go in and make adjustments..
Tell you friend that there are 1000's and 1000's of bikes on the road that have piggyback tuner devices attached to them with minimal failures. He works for HD and the orange Kool Aid seems to have done its job...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,341
Likes: 713
hd corporate dyno(pep rally) school? my 07 runs bad without some kind of adjustment especially with pipes and intake,so much heat it will start to ping,stumble and surge. ied helped but not enough for my ride.pcv and it now runs right.now I'm just waiting for the ecm to fry 5 years and no ecm fire yet?
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 6
If it's in your buget get a tuner. My 12 road glide has slipons, screaming eagle intake and V&H power duals. The motor is stock. My dealer loaded the stage one to go with intake /exhaust. Other than odd pop when shifting up, it ran good. I decided to go with a tuner with a map included for the setup. The bike pulled noticeably harder . There were a few shift pops that were easy enough to tune out as well as pinging that was detected that I never did hear that was tuned out as well. It's just good to have control over the tuning and not rely on someone else. I can also remove the tuner when not in use so its not s piggy back model.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,083
Likes: 247
From: Tulsa, OK
Stock the bike is shitty lean, go spend 60 bucks at a dyne jet shop and get a base line pull done, it sucks, and any spirited riding at all and it's painfully obvious, popping on decel and pinging under hard load. Freer flowing exhaust doesn't make it leaner, nor does ECU adjust to richer than the "ideal" epa tune offered from the dealership, but because it flows easier it leans out faster which means if it's not initially richer it's going to get too lean. Reducing the restrictions in the air intake only exacerbate the problem. I have been told at 2 competing dealerships that a stage one download bumps the timing and ups the rev limiter it does not enrich the air/fuel ratio...
As I said YMMV but bone stock I am 100% happier with a power commander 5 and a canned map. Plus tuning is 175 at a dyne jet shop Vs 375 at a dealership before forking over the price of the SEST or SEPST. Gently used PC5 $175. It's your ride and your money do with it as you wish and whatever the outcome be happy riding.
As I said YMMV but bone stock I am 100% happier with a power commander 5 and a canned map. Plus tuning is 175 at a dyne jet shop Vs 375 at a dealership before forking over the price of the SEST or SEPST. Gently used PC5 $175. It's your ride and your money do with it as you wish and whatever the outcome be happy riding.
MODERATOR
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,108
Likes: 1,964
From: New England
I have a 2013 Road Glide that is stock except for the Vance and Hines slipons I added. I also had the catalytic converter removed after 8,500 miles. I am thinking of adding a K & N Stage 1 Breather...My question is; Do I need to install a tuner or have it remaped after doing these changes? I am not planning any future changes. I just want to get the HP out of the bike it has the ability to achieve while at the same time have it run cooler. Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated as I am in no way a motorheadL
So, I'll say it this way...if you really don't mind the taste of two-week old bread that sort of looks like a science experiment, then you'll be happy with just the "ied" type devices. And if you can't tell the difference between a four cylinder economy car running on three or four cylinders, then the standard Harley download/remap should suit your needs.
While I appreciate your candor with respect to your knowledge base, people WILL take advantage of you and suggest this or that will work just fine because either they really don't know or are simply trying to separate you from your money.
To get the HD motor (or any for that matter) running well and efficiently, it will take accessing the ECM, adjusting the many tables, and a few hours to do all that. And that's assuming you've found a competent & knowledgeable shop.
I'd suggest you take the time to learn a lot more about the HD EFI system and what it will take to get it to perform/behave at more optimum levels. Your bike will benefit and you'll actually see just how well these bikes run once they are tuned properly.
Good luck!
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
I have a 2013 Road Glide that is stock except for the Vance and Hines slipons I added. I also had the catalytic converter removed after 8,500 miles. I am thinking of adding a K & N Stage 1 Breather...My question is; Do I need to install a tuner or have it remaped after doing these changes? I am not planning any future changes. I just want to get the HP out of the bike it has the ability to achieve while at the same time have it run cooler. Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated as I am in no way a motorheadL
NO, you do not need to get a tuner. we want you to be the one to report back in 2, 5 & 10k to prove it for future generations.
Thread Starter
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Novice
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
some 2+ years ago I asked the same question. an answer I got which you have not was OK, why did you do what you have done so far to the stock bike? That got me thinking and reading and so on. I got a tuner and glad I did. Yes the ECM will adjust and the bike will continue to run. Most agree that if you are going to mod the AC and exhaust then do a complete job in changing the performance. But for you........
NO, you do not need to get a tuner. we want you to be the one to report back in 2, 5 & 10k to prove it for future generations.
NO, you do not need to get a tuner. we want you to be the one to report back in 2, 5 & 10k to prove it for future generations.
Yes, you CAN.
When a guy takes this advice, and then burns a hole in his piston...
HDs are set up to run VERY lean from the mfgr, lean=hot INSIDE the combustion chamber. When you install AC and remove the cats, change mufflers, etc. you are ADDING airflow to an already "on the edge" lean mixture. Yes, you will get some more power, but at what cost?
Even a dealer download will fatten it up to the point of being "safe", but I don't trust those either.
WHY would a person buy a 15, 20, 25 thousand dollar motorcycle, spend over a grand on pipes and AC, and not spend at LEAST another 200 to have it run without worry of burning your pistons?
My TTS run me $600 for the 2 bike kit, that was $300 per bike. PV runs around 500...
Never mind. People don't listen to reason.
Just trying to help.
.
When a guy takes this advice, and then burns a hole in his piston...
HDs are set up to run VERY lean from the mfgr, lean=hot INSIDE the combustion chamber. When you install AC and remove the cats, change mufflers, etc. you are ADDING airflow to an already "on the edge" lean mixture. Yes, you will get some more power, but at what cost?
Even a dealer download will fatten it up to the point of being "safe", but I don't trust those either.
WHY would a person buy a 15, 20, 25 thousand dollar motorcycle, spend over a grand on pipes and AC, and not spend at LEAST another 200 to have it run without worry of burning your pistons?
My TTS run me $600 for the 2 bike kit, that was $300 per bike. PV runs around 500...
Never mind. People don't listen to reason.
Just trying to help.
.
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and again, how in the hell do you adjust the ECM without a tuner attached?????
It's not like there's a slot in the side of it for a screwdriver to go in and make adjustments..
Tell you friend that there are 1000's and 1000's of bikes on the road that have piggyback tuner devices attached to them with minimal failures. He works for HD and the orange Kool Aid seems to have done its job...
It's not like there's a slot in the side of it for a screwdriver to go in and make adjustments..
Tell you friend that there are 1000's and 1000's of bikes on the road that have piggyback tuner devices attached to them with minimal failures. He works for HD and the orange Kool Aid seems to have done its job...
I ran a V&H Fuelpak (piggyback unit) on my 'Ol Lady's '09 Deluxe for 25k miles, never an issue, and always ran top notch. Stock headpipes, Rush 1.75" baffles, SE intake, K&N filter.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,776
Likes: 2,252
From: wet coast BC
I had the CAT removed on the advice of a Harley service writer so it would run cooler. I put the Vance and Hines slipons on so it had a little deeper sound than the stock pipes. My objective is to have a good sounding bike as well as a good running bike. I am not looking for a screaming bike but do want to keep up with others if that makes any sense. So what tuner did you put on your bike? I certainly want my bike to last for at least a 100.000 miles since it may be my last ride. Thanks for sharing your opinion. It is appreciated greatly.
HDs are set up to run VERY lean from the mfgr, lean=hot INSIDE the combustion chamber. When you install AC and remove the cats, change mufflers, etc. you are ADDING airflow to an already "on the edge" lean mixture. Yes, you will get some more power, but at what cost?
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