Is a tuner needed?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Burns a hole in his piston? Can you offer any proof of that happening to any newer HD that was caused by not having a tuner? Have you seen dyno charts with A/C and pipes with no tuner vs stock? The current ECM's do have the power to adjust to it's stock lean condition and you will not burn a whole in your piston.
Of course it's best to do it right and I aslo bought the TTS 2 bike tuner and had it dyno tuned but you are the one giving out bad information with nothing to back it up with.
Of course it's best to do it right and I aslo bought the TTS 2 bike tuner and had it dyno tuned but you are the one giving out bad information with nothing to back it up with.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,500
Likes: 332
From: Blue Grass (KY)
I have a new 13 Ultra...when I do my simple modifications this is what I'll do.
1. Screaming Eagle touring mufflers with Cycle Shack baffles...I like them.
2. Arlen Ness big sucker, have one already waiting.
3. FullSac header...it's what I like.
4. TTS Master turner....again what I like.
This should make my ultra run like it should and be a lot cooler....nothing wild just a good setup I think...
Cost? About $1000.00. But I have the mufflers and breather already so...saving up and getting the right stuff.
This is my setup, not saying everyone should do the same...
1. Screaming Eagle touring mufflers with Cycle Shack baffles...I like them.
2. Arlen Ness big sucker, have one already waiting.
3. FullSac header...it's what I like.
4. TTS Master turner....again what I like.
This should make my ultra run like it should and be a lot cooler....nothing wild just a good setup I think...
Cost? About $1000.00. But I have the mufflers and breather already so...saving up and getting the right stuff.
This is my setup, not saying everyone should do the same...
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 324
Likes: 12
From: Cow Lake, WI
My bike runs very lean with SE slip ons. Constantly pops thru air cleaner and exhaust. Embarrassing and I know that lean = engine failure.
I bought a Dynojet tuner from Fuel moto and installed one of their tunes in about 3 minutes and BAM! bike runs like it should.
My stealer claimed that's what HD sets them at and he could maybe download a updated tune if there was one available. F-them, they just want your money. Now if I ever do anything else to my bike down the road I can download a new tune into the tuner from online and then use "autotune mode" if it needs final touches.
PS: it automatically saves your original tune for future use if you would need it.
I bought a Dynojet tuner from Fuel moto and installed one of their tunes in about 3 minutes and BAM! bike runs like it should.
My stealer claimed that's what HD sets them at and he could maybe download a updated tune if there was one available. F-them, they just want your money. Now if I ever do anything else to my bike down the road I can download a new tune into the tuner from online and then use "autotune mode" if it needs final touches.
PS: it automatically saves your original tune for future use if you would need it.
Lots of opinions.
First I'll post some objective information...then below that, add yet another opinion.
The above shows that even stock, the ECM is running the AFR lean.
The FL-XiED-10's will richen the AFR up and the bike will run better.
Does the ECM adjust? Yes. Will it adjust enough for it to run better/cooler? At best it will adjust to the EPA mandated AFR which is NOT good for performance or heat.
The budget way to go is the FL-XiED-10's, you can get more info on them HERE.
If you want to get the most out of the bike, then a full tuner is the way to go. I don't think you can do any better than a Power Vision.
First I'll post some objective information...then below that, add yet another opinion.
The above shows that even stock, the ECM is running the AFR lean.
The FL-XiED-10's will richen the AFR up and the bike will run better.
Does the ECM adjust? Yes. Will it adjust enough for it to run better/cooler? At best it will adjust to the EPA mandated AFR which is NOT good for performance or heat.
The budget way to go is the FL-XiED-10's, you can get more info on them HERE.
If you want to get the most out of the bike, then a full tuner is the way to go. I don't think you can do any better than a Power Vision.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,741
Likes: 45
From: Indian Land, SC
I know that, I had one, the turtle guy says no tuner but to use a dyno to tune the ECM/bike.....
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
I guess it matters how much ya care about your bike and/or how much performance you expect. I hope no knowledgeable person will disagree a proper dyno tune will provide the best running and performing motor. I new bike is $20k+ a proper tuner and tune is under $1k. Personally if I only had $1k to spend it would be on a tune, not pipes and air cleaner? I actually got some used slip ons, air cleaner and tuner + tune for that $1k.
Last edited by 0ldhippie; Sep 7, 2013 at 08:30 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
I guess it matters how much ya care about your bike and/or how much performance you expect. I hope no knowledgeable person will disagree a proper dyno tune will provide the best running and performing motor. I new bike is $20k+ a proper tuner and tune is under $1k. Personally if I only had $1k to spend it would be on a tune, not pipes and air cleaner? I actually got some used slip ons, air cleaner and tuner + tune for that $1k.
But at the same time, I don't think anybody has burned a hole in their piston by not having a tuner on a newer harley with just pipes and A/C without a tuner.
I guess it matters how much ya care about your bike and/or how much performance you expect. I hope no knowledgeable person will disagree a proper dyno tune will provide the best running and performing motor. I new bike is $20k+ a proper tuner and tune is under $1k. Personally if I only had $1k to spend it would be on a tune, not pipes and air cleaner? I actually got some used slip ons, air cleaner and tuner + tune for that $1k.
For those that want to get everything as good as it can be, a full tuner is the way to go.
I do agree with you that a "proper dyno tune" will provide the best running and performing engine. HOWEVER, good dyno tuners are few and far between. This is why I like the Power Vision with the auto tune.
I totally agree with you. Why wouldn't you want to have your bike run at its best even if you have to dump a grand into it.
But at the same time, I don't think anybody has burned a hole in their piston by not having a tuner on a newer harley with just pipes and A/C without a tuner.
But at the same time, I don't think anybody has burned a hole in their piston by not having a tuner on a newer harley with just pipes and A/C without a tuner.
I agree, never heard of anyone burning a hole in the piston by running the stock tune on a bike with just pipes and A/C.
HOWEVER, I have seen quite a few with burnt valves and out of round cylinders from too much heat. This is not an uncommon occurrence (especially in the heavier touring models) when there is an open a/c, open pipes and a HD download. They are quite simply too lean and on the heavier bikes generate too much heat.
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
From: Mo.
I see people on here alot blaming popping on being lean,sounds like just the opposite from my experience with engines,popping is usually due to a load of unburned fuel being ignited,that doesn't sound lean to me,just the opposite.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,534
Likes: 3,938
From: Virginia
Topics like this get me nuts because so many of you "repeat" info you've heard from someone without doing the proper research (no disrespect to anyone). There are literally thousands of well researched threads on this forum and others explaining how the ECM on a Harley works today and how, when and what to remap it for.
I am not going into the reasons why but get your bike remapped if you change the headers and/or a hi-flo ac. Not needed for just slip-ons. Before you respond to my post (which is only to keep someone from making a bad decision), learn the answer to these questions:
1. How many inputs go into the stock ecm?
2. What is steady state vs WOT?
3. How many different maps are programmed into you Harley ECM?
4. What is the maximum AFR adjustment the ecm can make in steady state based on feedback from the O2 sensors?
5. What are the only 2 ways to reprogram a stock ecm vs a piggyback device vs an aftermarket ecm?
I am not going into the reasons why but get your bike remapped if you change the headers and/or a hi-flo ac. Not needed for just slip-ons. Before you respond to my post (which is only to keep someone from making a bad decision), learn the answer to these questions:
1. How many inputs go into the stock ecm?
2. What is steady state vs WOT?
3. How many different maps are programmed into you Harley ECM?
4. What is the maximum AFR adjustment the ecm can make in steady state based on feedback from the O2 sensors?
5. What are the only 2 ways to reprogram a stock ecm vs a piggyback device vs an aftermarket ecm?