How significant is the change Headers make
How significant is the change Headers make
I understand that gains are cumulative, but each of the items we normally change probably made a difference by themselves.
Stock Airbox with K&N Air Filter Element ($29)
V&H Twin Slash Slipons ($450)
TTS Mastertune V-Tune (street dyno using Flight Recorder) ($289)
^Lets suppose this is the base line.^
Next step is to get a FM ($399) or FullSac x-pipe ($479) header. Or gut the stock CAT ($75 w/exchange). Then re-tune on the street dyno ($0).
Is the difference between an expensive x-pipe worth it over the gutted cat? I gotta figure on the accident exposure of breaking an exhaust stud or screwing up an 02 sensor bung or some other unexpected outcome for a hp or two and one or three ftl bs of tq.
I may, at some point, do cams, but I'm thinking not till I need to replace cam chain shores or something major three or four years from now.
I'm a touring rider, 90% solo, and rarely shift over 3500 rpm. Many many miles logged between 2300 and 2500 rpm.
Smooth delivery of low to midrange power is more important than raw hp numbers. Good fuel mileage counts as it indicate an efficient and proper tune.
I have never notice heat on the right side any more that any other bike (running FL-VIED-10's set at 75% and getting very good mileage ~47-~52mpg.
Stock Airbox with K&N Air Filter Element ($29)
V&H Twin Slash Slipons ($450)
TTS Mastertune V-Tune (street dyno using Flight Recorder) ($289)
^Lets suppose this is the base line.^
Next step is to get a FM ($399) or FullSac x-pipe ($479) header. Or gut the stock CAT ($75 w/exchange). Then re-tune on the street dyno ($0).
Is the difference between an expensive x-pipe worth it over the gutted cat? I gotta figure on the accident exposure of breaking an exhaust stud or screwing up an 02 sensor bung or some other unexpected outcome for a hp or two and one or three ftl bs of tq.
I may, at some point, do cams, but I'm thinking not till I need to replace cam chain shores or something major three or four years from now.
I'm a touring rider, 90% solo, and rarely shift over 3500 rpm. Many many miles logged between 2300 and 2500 rpm.
Smooth delivery of low to midrange power is more important than raw hp numbers. Good fuel mileage counts as it indicate an efficient and proper tune.
I have never notice heat on the right side any more that any other bike (running FL-VIED-10's set at 75% and getting very good mileage ~47-~52mpg.
Road Captain
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 653
Likes: 2
I made significant changes with an SS204 Cam; headers; hydraulic tensioners; adjustable push rods, ad nausea . . . yikes!
You will, obviously, make the changes that make you happy; whether it's $/hp/lbft; or "feel"!
I threw "caution to the wind" and just went ahead and made the upgrades!
The bike sounds GREAT! Performs like a NEW ride!
And, my "honey" loves it. .
I haven't noticed any sacrifice in fuel economy; though that wasn't of a major concern. But, the performance is night and day.
My decision was based on the miles on the clock.
Made the change at 50k; running strong now at 60k.
Have fun with it!
You will, obviously, make the changes that make you happy; whether it's $/hp/lbft; or "feel"!
I threw "caution to the wind" and just went ahead and made the upgrades!
The bike sounds GREAT! Performs like a NEW ride!
And, my "honey" loves it. .
I haven't noticed any sacrifice in fuel economy; though that wasn't of a major concern. But, the performance is night and day.
My decision was based on the miles on the clock.
Made the change at 50k; running strong now at 60k.
Have fun with it!
Last edited by Len; Oct 22, 2013 at 06:20 PM. Reason: didn't like the wording and grammar
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
I suggest the less expensive alternative- I have an 09, so a similar header- but no cat.
The bike runs fine at stage 1.
a huge advantage of the touring exhaust system is the large internal volume. ( and this is why the touring models always show a few more HP over the Dynas- even though the motor is the same
I would suggest your motor will last longer if you keep your revs up a little higher- 65 MPH is kinda minimum for 6th gear, level ground, no headwind.
mike
The bike runs fine at stage 1.
a huge advantage of the touring exhaust system is the large internal volume. ( and this is why the touring models always show a few more HP over the Dynas- even though the motor is the same
I would suggest your motor will last longer if you keep your revs up a little higher- 65 MPH is kinda minimum for 6th gear, level ground, no headwind.
mike
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,932
Likes: 882
From: SOON TO BE A SAFE AMERICA
I understand that gains are cumulative, but each of the items we normally change probably made a difference by themselves.
Stock Airbox with K&N Air Filter Element ($29)
V&H Twin Slash Slipons ($450)
TTS Mastertune V-Tune (street dyno using Flight Recorder) ($289)
^Lets suppose this is the base line.^
Next step is to get a FM ($399) or FullSac x-pipe ($479) header. Or gut the stock CAT ($75 w/exchange). Then re-tune on the street dyno ($0).
Is the difference between an expensive x-pipe worth it over the gutted cat? I gotta figure on the accident exposure of breaking an exhaust stud or screwing up an 02 sensor bung or some other unexpected outcome for a hp or two and one or three ftl bs of tq.
I may, at some point, do cams, but I'm thinking not till I need to replace cam chain shores or something major three or four years from now.
I'm a touring rider, 90% solo, and rarely shift over 3500 rpm. Many many miles logged between 2300 and 2500 rpm.
Smooth delivery of low to midrange power is more important than raw hp numbers. Good fuel mileage counts as it indicate an efficient and proper tune.
I have never notice heat on the right side any more that any other bike (running FL-VIED-10's set at 75% and getting very good mileage ~47-~52mpg.
Stock Airbox with K&N Air Filter Element ($29)
V&H Twin Slash Slipons ($450)
TTS Mastertune V-Tune (street dyno using Flight Recorder) ($289)
^Lets suppose this is the base line.^
Next step is to get a FM ($399) or FullSac x-pipe ($479) header. Or gut the stock CAT ($75 w/exchange). Then re-tune on the street dyno ($0).
Is the difference between an expensive x-pipe worth it over the gutted cat? I gotta figure on the accident exposure of breaking an exhaust stud or screwing up an 02 sensor bung or some other unexpected outcome for a hp or two and one or three ftl bs of tq.
I may, at some point, do cams, but I'm thinking not till I need to replace cam chain shores or something major three or four years from now.
I'm a touring rider, 90% solo, and rarely shift over 3500 rpm. Many many miles logged between 2300 and 2500 rpm.
Smooth delivery of low to midrange power is more important than raw hp numbers. Good fuel mileage counts as it indicate an efficient and proper tune.
I have never notice heat on the right side any more that any other bike (running FL-VIED-10's set at 75% and getting very good mileage ~47-~52mpg.
Both fullsac and fuel Moto make Awesome X-Pipes! And Both will help out a ton getting rid of the cat and all the heat.
However, If you plan on using the TTS master tune II, I would recommend you going with the fullsac set up. Fullsac ia a TTS Master tune turner house and Steve sells them and will give you one of his maps for that set up.
If you really want the Jack pot X-Pipe, you maybe better off with Jamie's tuning device and use his PV.
Fullsac has a bunch of different choices of X-Pipes to choose from.
Some folks have had really good luck with a de catted stock pipe, but beware some folks have had some trouble as well.
Me, at the time of purchase (2010 or 2011) fuel Moto was on back order for their X-pipe, and Fullsac had them in stock. This made my decision easy.
Most of the folks on the CVOHarley site use Fullsac set up, while here most use the Fuel Moto set up.
Either way, I think your heading in the right direction.
Good luck,
YB
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,145
Likes: 6,168
From: SE Michigan
If you want to save money, I'd gut the cat. Fullsac and Fuel Moto pipes are nice, but I doubt you'd notice a huge difference in performance.
I had the Fullsac x-pipe, liked it fine, but I wanted better sound, so I went with true duals - V&H Dresser Duals. Bike sounds MUCH BETTER now.
I had the Fullsac x-pipe, liked it fine, but I wanted better sound, so I went with true duals - V&H Dresser Duals. Bike sounds MUCH BETTER now.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,784
Likes: 100
From: Pasadena TX
Maybe it's just me, but debating an extra hp or three is sort of futile. I mean really, how often do you wring out that last horsepower? I would make my choice based on asthetics. The right look is at least as important as an extra horsepower, to me anyway.
I just installed a new Fuel Moto SPC head pipe on my 2013 Ultra Limited. Running Rush Big Louies with 2.5 baffles. The difference is way more noticeable than I ever imagined! Definately worth $399.
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
At Stage 1, there isn't much absolute power difference. Gutted stock pipes won't run or tune well, but they will be cooler and louder.
The benefit of the aftermarket pipes is proper 02 sensor placement and vastly improved scavenging and flow. Add cams, and the aftermarket pipes will vastly outperform a gutted stock pipe.
The benefit of the aftermarket pipes is proper 02 sensor placement and vastly improved scavenging and flow. Add cams, and the aftermarket pipes will vastly outperform a gutted stock pipe.
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At Stage 1, there isn't much absolute power difference. Gutted stock pipes won't run or tune well, but they will be cooler and louder.
The benefit of the aftermarket pipes is proper 02 sensor placement and vastly improved scavenging and flow. Add cams, and the aftermarket pipes will vastly outperform a gutted stock pipe.
The benefit of the aftermarket pipes is proper 02 sensor placement and vastly improved scavenging and flow. Add cams, and the aftermarket pipes will vastly outperform a gutted stock pipe.
This makes sense. I appreciate all the answers.
I think I'll tune with the stock headpipe and CAT till I can afford the x-pipe.
Greg
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,129
Likes: 143
From: Santa Cruz
I recently changed out my stock '09 non-cat header for a fullsack xpipe. I wasn't expecting much difference but got a deal on the pipe. I was unexpectedly surprised! Bike has more "pull" and I can cruise down under 50mph in 6th gear easily plus most all the exhaust heat is gone. I would have never believed just the header would make as big a difference, especially in normal riding!!?? Your results may differ as my 103 has 10-1 pistons, andrews 54 cams plus A/C & slip-ons.
Last edited by 0ldhippie; Oct 22, 2013 at 09:55 PM.
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