Top End Noise
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 4
From: NC
Exactly. Most guys are talking pushrod adjustment and lifter noise on a sound that is coming from likely the looser side of an allowable tolderance for rocker arm to support clearance. Some guys have used shims to correct this clearnace down to its tighter side with good results. Others have shimmed, even machined to allow for thicker shims and experienced no change in noise. While I'm interested in shims just to see if it gets rid of my light 2350 RPM tick on the front exhaust valve I'm also quite comfortable with how my bike runs. Besides, the bike runs best cruising at 2500-2800 anyway so assuming I can even hear the tick over the wind and radio I use it as an reminder to downshift.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 5
From: CT
All I can say is you guys who think a lifter or rocker tick is disconcerting, wait until you put in a cam with a lot of overlap with your open intake. I thought the motor was coming apart from my seating position. Knock like sound. Two feet away and I couldn't hear any noise. Intake reversion intensified by sloppy throttle body gears from what I understand.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 17
From: Mid West
OK, granted we all know the HD engines are a little noisy I hate to throw this in and get ridiculed but my '03 had what sounded like top end noise, started during a longer vacation tour of 2800 miles, kept getting louder as we made for home but was extremely hot in Kansas so blew it off until home, didn't go away so went to dealer, they heard it and also thought cam chain, tensioner, primary something, all looked good. Mechanic had a hunch, popped trans top, was full of filings, had lost a trans bearing and the machine was eating itself. $1600 later I had my ride back.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 4
From: NC
There's a lot to consider with diagnosing noises. There's the old addage that if it worsens under load its bottom end if its independent of load (does it do it when sitting in neutral in the driveway at a specific RPM?) its top end.
Most people can't hear mine, I can only hear it because I know the bike and have done all the work on it.
I'm not one of the worriers, but it is all interesting, to a point, to me. If I was to shim my rockers it wouldn't be because I'm concerned with reliability; it would be more of an experiment. But then you have to ask yourself, is adding something else (shims) which could find themselves floating around in your motor worth the experiment? There's been a lot of guys go down that rabbit hole and seemingly all of them had different configurations and different results.
Most people can't hear mine, I can only hear it because I know the bike and have done all the work on it.
I'm not one of the worriers, but it is all interesting, to a point, to me. If I was to shim my rockers it wouldn't be because I'm concerned with reliability; it would be more of an experiment. But then you have to ask yourself, is adding something else (shims) which could find themselves floating around in your motor worth the experiment? There's been a lot of guys go down that rabbit hole and seemingly all of them had different configurations and different results.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,335
Likes: 5
From: CT
There's a lot to consider with diagnosing noises. There's the old addage that if it worsens under load its bottom end if its independent of load (does it do it when sitting in neutral in the driveway at a specific RPM?) its top end.
Most people can't hear mine, I can only hear it because I know the bike and have done all the work on it.
I'm not one of the worriers, but it is all interesting, to a point, to me. If I was to shim my rockers it wouldn't be because I'm concerned with reliability; it would be more of an experiment. But then you have to ask yourself, is adding something else (shims) which could find themselves floating around in your motor worth the experiment? There's been a lot of guys go down that rabbit hole and seemingly all of them had different configurations and different results.
Most people can't hear mine, I can only hear it because I know the bike and have done all the work on it.
I'm not one of the worriers, but it is all interesting, to a point, to me. If I was to shim my rockers it wouldn't be because I'm concerned with reliability; it would be more of an experiment. But then you have to ask yourself, is adding something else (shims) which could find themselves floating around in your motor worth the experiment? There's been a lot of guys go down that rabbit hole and seemingly all of them had different configurations and different results.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,593
Likes: 6,435
From: Honah Lee
Exactly. Most guys are talking pushrod adjustment and lifter noise on a sound that is coming from likely the looser side of an allowable tolderance for rocker arm to support clearance. Some guys have used shims to correct this clearnace down to its tighter side with good results. Others have shimmed, even machined to allow for thicker shims and experienced no change in noise. While I'm interested in shims just to see if it gets rid of my light 2350 RPM tick on the front exhaust valve I'm also quite comfortable with how my bike runs. Besides, the bike runs best cruising at 2500-2800 anyway so assuming I can even hear the tick over the wind and radio I use it as an reminder to downshift.
Does any one know what sloppy throttle body gears are that 12hdrk refers to?
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Dec 24, 2013 at 03:30 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 211
Likes: 4
From: NC
That is the first time I've heard of the tolerances allowed between the shaft and rocker and how they create noise. Most everything I've seen friends, shops and even on various forums address is the play between the support and rocker.
Great explanation of yet another source of top end noise and offers a very complete explanation why guys who measure greater than .004 between the rocker and support and shim to address this may still hear noise.
Thanks for sharing and explaining.
Great explanation of yet another source of top end noise and offers a very complete explanation why guys who measure greater than .004 between the rocker and support and shim to address this may still hear noise.
Thanks for sharing and explaining.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,593
Likes: 6,435
From: Honah Lee
Support for the rocker arms is held down with 4 large bolts. It is not dowel pined, and before it locks down, the is some play in the bolt holes. If you read the PDF instructions for adjustable push rod, in certain applications, it instructs you to slide the support outboard toward the cam side so the push rods do not interfere. However, once you lock down the support, it's fixed. If it were to come loose, it would be banging big time. There is an end play in the rocker arm but the max is .025 side to side is what they are talking about (I think)
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,090
Likes: 7
The .0002 wear is the worn clearance between the rocker arm and it's shaft. No way to shim this. The lifter pumped up takes all the clearance out in an apx vertical direction. However, the wear lets the rocker shift in a apx horizontal direction direction. Then you hear the slight tic..the rocker bumping it shaft. There is over .100 built into the lifter for taking up vertical play due to tolerance. The valve spring overrides all excess or a valve would be held open. Also note that .0002 is and extremely small amount. Almost unmeasurable to most people. Just the heat spread of a Harley engine from cold to hot can change this much in certain areas..........A .0002 wear tic is normal since it is not even considered worn unless it is over .0035 . What is strange is you can hear it but if you put a stethoscope to it, it goes away and all your hear is the steady sewing machine weerr. Like any forum described sounds, if you hear a tic with a stethoscope, then you indeed have a tic......................
Does any one know what sloppy throttle body gears are that 12hdrk refers to?
Does any one know what sloppy throttle body gears are that 12hdrk refers to?
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,532
Likes: 132
From: SoCal
You should check on that, don't just assume.......My bike that I bought in 2/08 had the factory warranty expire in 6/10. If I remember correctly HD gives 2 months per year extension of warranty for unridable weather. And I live in California.