PV Log Tuner
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 13
From: Fort Worth
PV Log Tuner
Okay, so I've done 4 AT with the PV. I built each successive AT on the last tune file. I have managed to get most blocks but the upper and lower right seem to be elusive.
A couple things that I noticed. The Lambda never changed. Not sure it's supposed to but would have thought it would. Looking at the log, it is still .98 for each one of the cells. Did I do something wrong?
Also, I see in PV Log, spark advances have changed. Is it safe to copy these over to my tune in the main PV software?
A couple things that I noticed. The Lambda never changed. Not sure it's supposed to but would have thought it would. Looking at the log, it is still .98 for each one of the cells. Did I do something wrong?
Also, I see in PV Log, spark advances have changed. Is it safe to copy these over to my tune in the main PV software?
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
It is nearly impossible and absolutely not necessary to get the upper and lower right hand corner to change. You aren't likely to spend enough time in either spot to get enough hits to get it to register. Not sure about the spark changes as I don't think AT basic can make changes to timing. I know it resets the timing and AFR while doing the AT runs but shouldn't change the original map only changes the VE #s. Auto tune pro can do the timing also, but that is different story.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 130
From: Now Western TN
Just got my power vision yesterday, but from what I read and I checked with Jamie at FM, is you should do the AT runs just for the VE tables first. This is from the manual in the AT section:
In Pro mode, you can tune fuel and spark simultaneously; however, Dynojet recommends
to address fuel first, and then focus on spark. To do this, after you've completed tuning the
fuel (via adjustments to your VE tables) and flashed the corrected tune file to your ECM,
you can then start a new AutoTune session that's focused on spark corrections. In the
settings area of AutoTune you can set Max VE Learn to 0 and Max Spark Learn to 10.
In Pro mode, you can tune fuel and spark simultaneously; however, Dynojet recommends
to address fuel first, and then focus on spark. To do this, after you've completed tuning the
fuel (via adjustments to your VE tables) and flashed the corrected tune file to your ECM,
you can then start a new AutoTune session that's focused on spark corrections. In the
settings area of AutoTune you can set Max VE Learn to 0 and Max Spark Learn to 10.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
The PV will adjust timing in Basic mode. It does not adjust Lambda. You want to get the VEs done first, then address timing. The upper right can be mapped by using a higher gear and lugging the engine, but you're usually safe just extending the cells out.
You generally want to look at the map and manually adjust the spark to half the retard that the PV is telling you to take.
You generally want to look at the map and manually adjust the spark to half the retard that the PV is telling you to take.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,624
Likes: 13
From: Fort Worth
Thanks guys for the feedback.
05Train, I have yet to see any changes in the timing map on any of the tune files generated by PV. Why do you say half, so I can understand better. Also, are you saying half of the numbers I find in the pvt log?
Thanks....
05Train, I have yet to see any changes in the timing map on any of the tune files generated by PV. Why do you say half, so I can understand better. Also, are you saying half of the numbers I find in the pvt log?
Thanks....
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
When you create a tuning map, your lambda table is leaned out to closed loop, and the timing is retarded 4 degrees across the board. I cut the recommended retard in half because I can always pull more if it still retards.
And honestly, if it's only pulling a degree, it's not a huge deal, especially if it's pulling it inconsistently.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Okay, so I've done 4 AT with the PV. I built each successive AT on the last tune file. I have managed to get most blocks but the upper and lower right seem to be elusive.
A couple things that I noticed. The Lambda never changed. Not sure it's supposed to but would have thought it would. Looking at the log, it is still .98 for each one of the cells. Did I do something wrong?
Also, I see in PV Log, spark advances have changed. Is it safe to copy these over to my tune in the main PV software?
A couple things that I noticed. The Lambda never changed. Not sure it's supposed to but would have thought it would. Looking at the log, it is still .98 for each one of the cells. Did I do something wrong?
Also, I see in PV Log, spark advances have changed. Is it safe to copy these over to my tune in the main PV software?
PV Log Tuner is the preferred way to adjust spark advance. It monitors knock retard and adjusts the timing accordingly. Yes you should use Log Tuner to generate a new tune in WinPV if you want to take advantage of the spark timing changes.
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
Log Tuner is no longer supported by Dynojet. The AT software (whether Basic or Pro) can now do timing.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
That's true....but I don't like the way they do it. Autotune is already removing 4 degrees of timing and leaning the mixture. How valid do you think timing changes are under those conditions?
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 37
From: Monroe, Louisiana
Here is information about adjusting timing with AT.
"AutoTune can use the ECM's ion sensing knock control strategy in order to remove timing/adjust spark advance from areas of your calibration where knock was present. This feature can only remove timing, it will never add it. It is not recommended to use this feature with AutoTune Basic, only AutoTune Pro. This feature is disabled by default, but changing the "Max Spark Learn" from 0 to a value such as 10 would make it active."
The way this reads neither can adjust timing up. I guess you could raise the timing 3 or 4 degrees at a time and Autotune with Pro wideband and eventually get the timing to the max. Timing is already near peak in the cruise areas above 2500 on most maps I have looked at. The new 14 models have as much as 22 degrees in the idle area and 35 around 2000 below 50%. Didn't change the 100% load area much. The older models have between 16 and 18 in idle area and 5 or more degrees less in the low cruise area up to 3000 rpms. Changing the timing in lower areas with higher overlap cams helps more with the flat spots and hesitation that can happen with the performance cams with stock timing. The timing adjustment with stock cammed engines doesn't make a lot of difference in performance, at least that is what I have experienced. I does seem to run cooler with more timing in the low cruise area and idle areas. If you do decide to increase timing I would run a log and evaluate it for spark knock over 2 degrees. Even a stock tune will give some 2 degree spark knock alerts. You won't hear a ping unless it is over 8 degrees spark knock as that is the factory max for spark removal when spark knock is detected.
"AutoTune can use the ECM's ion sensing knock control strategy in order to remove timing/adjust spark advance from areas of your calibration where knock was present. This feature can only remove timing, it will never add it. It is not recommended to use this feature with AutoTune Basic, only AutoTune Pro. This feature is disabled by default, but changing the "Max Spark Learn" from 0 to a value such as 10 would make it active."
The way this reads neither can adjust timing up. I guess you could raise the timing 3 or 4 degrees at a time and Autotune with Pro wideband and eventually get the timing to the max. Timing is already near peak in the cruise areas above 2500 on most maps I have looked at. The new 14 models have as much as 22 degrees in the idle area and 35 around 2000 below 50%. Didn't change the 100% load area much. The older models have between 16 and 18 in idle area and 5 or more degrees less in the low cruise area up to 3000 rpms. Changing the timing in lower areas with higher overlap cams helps more with the flat spots and hesitation that can happen with the performance cams with stock timing. The timing adjustment with stock cammed engines doesn't make a lot of difference in performance, at least that is what I have experienced. I does seem to run cooler with more timing in the low cruise area and idle areas. If you do decide to increase timing I would run a log and evaluate it for spark knock over 2 degrees. Even a stock tune will give some 2 degree spark knock alerts. You won't hear a ping unless it is over 8 degrees spark knock as that is the factory max for spark removal when spark knock is detected.