Back from the dyno
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 884
From: 'Noke, VA
It actually depends on what kind of pop, and make the 'fix' match the pop.
If it pops right when the throttle is closed? Use DE. Also can do what Train is doing, with a PV.... if the pop isn't fixed by DE alone.
Now... long decel pop is different. Say you rev to 4k and close the throttle, then you get sporatic pop between say 3k to 2k? DE won't fix this. Again, if you use PV or SEPST, take the lowest KPA region and add a little fuel to the AFR range. Take some experimenting. Add a tad bit of timing on top, and should get fixed.
Now... with a TTS, one adjusts long pops totally different. TTS has closed throttle spark. Using that table, jack the 3000 rpm range timing up to like 30-40*. That advanced of timing will suck the flame front back into the pipe. Keep under 1500 rpm matched to the main spark tables. I match 2000 rpms somewhat to match idle.
DE is instantaneous. It is not a fix for pops that occur more than a second or two. Timing and fuel will need to be messed with.
Dirty Air? Once you use any tuner you will be out of EPA compliance anyways, so it becomes how well one wishes the bike to run as configured.
Train, depending upon how well low RPM VEs are fixed, you will STILL have a bit of AFV action, even in open loop, if the VEs are off a bit. To dirty air, how much fuel, when the throttle is closed, do you really think is used on a tenth of a Lambda point? Too small to measure at the exhaust for sure.
If it pops right when the throttle is closed? Use DE. Also can do what Train is doing, with a PV.... if the pop isn't fixed by DE alone.
Now... long decel pop is different. Say you rev to 4k and close the throttle, then you get sporatic pop between say 3k to 2k? DE won't fix this. Again, if you use PV or SEPST, take the lowest KPA region and add a little fuel to the AFR range. Take some experimenting. Add a tad bit of timing on top, and should get fixed.
Now... with a TTS, one adjusts long pops totally different. TTS has closed throttle spark. Using that table, jack the 3000 rpm range timing up to like 30-40*. That advanced of timing will suck the flame front back into the pipe. Keep under 1500 rpm matched to the main spark tables. I match 2000 rpms somewhat to match idle.
DE is instantaneous. It is not a fix for pops that occur more than a second or two. Timing and fuel will need to be messed with.
Dirty Air? Once you use any tuner you will be out of EPA compliance anyways, so it becomes how well one wishes the bike to run as configured.
Train, depending upon how well low RPM VEs are fixed, you will STILL have a bit of AFV action, even in open loop, if the VEs are off a bit. To dirty air, how much fuel, when the throttle is closed, do you really think is used on a tenth of a Lambda point? Too small to measure at the exhaust for sure.
BTW, the PV also has closed-throttle spark.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
It actually depends on what kind of pop, and make the 'fix' match the pop.
If it pops right when the throttle is closed? Use DE. Also can do what Train is doing, with a PV.... if the pop isn't fixed by DE alone.
Now... long decel pop is different. Say you rev to 4k and close the throttle, then you get sporatic pop between say 3k to 2k? DE won't fix this. Again, if you use PV or SEPST, take the lowest KPA region and add a little fuel to the AFR range. Take some experimenting. Add a tad bit of timing on top, and should get fixed.
Now... with a TTS, one adjusts long pops totally different. TTS has closed throttle spark. Using that table, jack the 3000 rpm range timing up to like 30-40*. That advanced of timing will suck the flame front back into the pipe. Keep under 1500 rpm matched to the main spark tables. I match 2000 rpms somewhat to match idle.
DE is instantaneous. It is not a fix for pops that occur more than a second or two. Timing and fuel will need to be messed with.
Dirty Air? Once you use any tuner you will be out of EPA compliance anyways, so it becomes how well one wishes the bike to run as configured.
Train, depending upon how well low RPM VEs are fixed, you will STILL have a bit of AFV action, even in open loop, if the VEs are off a bit. To dirty air, how much fuel, when the throttle is closed, do you really think is used on a tenth of a Lambda point? Too small to measure at the exhaust for sure.
If it pops right when the throttle is closed? Use DE. Also can do what Train is doing, with a PV.... if the pop isn't fixed by DE alone.
Now... long decel pop is different. Say you rev to 4k and close the throttle, then you get sporatic pop between say 3k to 2k? DE won't fix this. Again, if you use PV or SEPST, take the lowest KPA region and add a little fuel to the AFR range. Take some experimenting. Add a tad bit of timing on top, and should get fixed.
Now... with a TTS, one adjusts long pops totally different. TTS has closed throttle spark. Using that table, jack the 3000 rpm range timing up to like 30-40*. That advanced of timing will suck the flame front back into the pipe. Keep under 1500 rpm matched to the main spark tables. I match 2000 rpms somewhat to match idle.
DE is instantaneous. It is not a fix for pops that occur more than a second or two. Timing and fuel will need to be messed with.
Dirty Air? Once you use any tuner you will be out of EPA compliance anyways, so it becomes how well one wishes the bike to run as configured.
Train, depending upon how well low RPM VEs are fixed, you will STILL have a bit of AFV action, even in open loop, if the VEs are off a bit. To dirty air, how much fuel, when the throttle is closed, do you really think is used on a tenth of a Lambda point? Too small to measure at the exhaust for sure.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 130
From: Now Western TN
So while in open loop I wont be gradually moving the VE's based on new AFV's being populated like I could be if I was running closed loop. Thought I read somewhere that when in closed loop the new calculated AFVs are saved off to the ECM when the bike is turned off.
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