The Wobble, A Comprehensive Look into Cause, Effect, and Fix
Banned
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 678
Likes: 1
From: LA
Sorry, have not checked yet.
Just to keep all the data in one place, this looks like yet another effort to calm the beast ...
http://www.google.com/patents/US8387737
No idea if it has made the market.
It looks like a longer pivot and replacement donut that does a similar job to the Sta-Bo II, although I did not have time to read over the patent ... TLDR.
Jeez, "Patent English" is the biggest load of waffle I have ever read.
Just to keep all the data in one place, this looks like yet another effort to calm the beast ...
http://www.google.com/patents/US8387737
No idea if it has made the market.
It looks like a longer pivot and replacement donut that does a similar job to the Sta-Bo II, although I did not have time to read over the patent ... TLDR.
Jeez, "Patent English" is the biggest load of waffle I have ever read.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,940
Likes: 8,037
From: poway
Sorry, have not checked yet.
Just to keep all the data in one place, this looks like yet another effort to calm the beast ...
http://www.google.com/patents/US8387737
No idea if it has made the market.
It looks like a longer pivot and replacement donut that does a similar job to the Sta-Bo II, although I did not have time to read over the patent ... TLDR.
Jeez, "Patent English" is the biggest load of waffle I have ever read.
Just to keep all the data in one place, this looks like yet another effort to calm the beast ...
http://www.google.com/patents/US8387737
No idea if it has made the market.
It looks like a longer pivot and replacement donut that does a similar job to the Sta-Bo II, although I did not have time to read over the patent ... TLDR.
Jeez, "Patent English" is the biggest load of waffle I have ever read.
Jeremy Ore is Jake Ore..
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 446
From: South Florida
I have been doing research on all of this. While I can see what the products are supposed to do, both factory, and aftermarket, I think we're missing the most major component of all of this, and that is, "Are the mounts classified as a wear item?" If so, should they be checked, and changed as necessary?
Given the fact that there are a lot of contributing factors to the inducement of a wobble, is there something being overlooked that could cause this to happen to one bike over another, like hitting a pothole, or something that could jar the thing out of alignment in the first place? I mean, I watched the videos on the Glide-Pro site and he spent a lot of time going over exactly how to align the bike. It's obvious that it has a great deal to do with whatever else is happening concerning the wobble.
That being said, would replacing the mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation, even temporarily, and return the ride quality to new? If so, then why doesn't anyone address this in all of these threads on how to fix this?
Maybe they should put the mounts on a factory checklist to be checked at intervals in order to prevent this from occurring so often? I mean, I think it's a given that when going aftermarket, that all of the problems are categorically addressed in order to meet advertised claims, but does anything specify the interval in which bikes are checked for this? Perhaps at every tire change these things should be checked?
Any extraneous event that possibly exacerbates the condition by which mechanism the wobble begins to happen might be best addressed by a dealer, or at the very least, by a trained and certified mechanic. I think it takes more than simply saying it shouldn't happen, when it happens to all bikes regardless of the mounting. In cases like the well known CHP video, were they able to induce that wobble on multiple bikes in the same circumstances?
I know one thing. Every time I see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars. Seems that every time someone puts taller bars on their bike, they end up changing those bushings, because the bike in stock config doesn't exert the forces on them that the taller bars do. The by product of that is more vibration, but the bars would never be stable after a certain height with the softer bushings. Of course, more vibrations is subjective, as, after a while, you don't notice any. Seem like the same theory applies to the swingarm, except that the bushings in there are softer and wearing out after a while. It stands to reason that the fix would be to check the alignment, the fall away, and replace the mounts, either with factory fresh components, or aftermarket ones, if they show wear outside of certain tolerances.
Personally, I think that checking the fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any aftermarket parts do, but if the mounts are worn, or there are issues in the bearings then it won't stay that way for any length of time, and simply revert right back to the way it was before, simply due to wear, and possibly any other peculiar circumstances that might fall within tolerances. So, maybe an all or nothing approach is best. If you want it to last, change the parts out for better, and live with the vibes for a little while until they have a chance to work themselves in. Then, check it again. You might find that once the bike has settled into it's natural state that some of your initial adjustments might be off.
WHatever it is, I hope it's fixable. We all like it when our bikes ride like new.
Given the fact that there are a lot of contributing factors to the inducement of a wobble, is there something being overlooked that could cause this to happen to one bike over another, like hitting a pothole, or something that could jar the thing out of alignment in the first place? I mean, I watched the videos on the Glide-Pro site and he spent a lot of time going over exactly how to align the bike. It's obvious that it has a great deal to do with whatever else is happening concerning the wobble.
That being said, would replacing the mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation, even temporarily, and return the ride quality to new? If so, then why doesn't anyone address this in all of these threads on how to fix this?
Maybe they should put the mounts on a factory checklist to be checked at intervals in order to prevent this from occurring so often? I mean, I think it's a given that when going aftermarket, that all of the problems are categorically addressed in order to meet advertised claims, but does anything specify the interval in which bikes are checked for this? Perhaps at every tire change these things should be checked?
Any extraneous event that possibly exacerbates the condition by which mechanism the wobble begins to happen might be best addressed by a dealer, or at the very least, by a trained and certified mechanic. I think it takes more than simply saying it shouldn't happen, when it happens to all bikes regardless of the mounting. In cases like the well known CHP video, were they able to induce that wobble on multiple bikes in the same circumstances?
I know one thing. Every time I see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars. Seems that every time someone puts taller bars on their bike, they end up changing those bushings, because the bike in stock config doesn't exert the forces on them that the taller bars do. The by product of that is more vibration, but the bars would never be stable after a certain height with the softer bushings. Of course, more vibrations is subjective, as, after a while, you don't notice any. Seem like the same theory applies to the swingarm, except that the bushings in there are softer and wearing out after a while. It stands to reason that the fix would be to check the alignment, the fall away, and replace the mounts, either with factory fresh components, or aftermarket ones, if they show wear outside of certain tolerances.
Personally, I think that checking the fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any aftermarket parts do, but if the mounts are worn, or there are issues in the bearings then it won't stay that way for any length of time, and simply revert right back to the way it was before, simply due to wear, and possibly any other peculiar circumstances that might fall within tolerances. So, maybe an all or nothing approach is best. If you want it to last, change the parts out for better, and live with the vibes for a little while until they have a chance to work themselves in. Then, check it again. You might find that once the bike has settled into it's natural state that some of your initial adjustments might be off.
WHatever it is, I hope it's fixable. We all like it when our bikes ride like new.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 446
From: South Florida
While on the subject of alignment, the bikes need to be aligned in the vertical plane using the mounts and adjusters, but then, also should be checked for wheel alignment as well. Belt deflection and rear to front wheel alignment should be checked after doing toe engine alignments. It's possible that they too, could be off after adjusting everything else.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,940
Likes: 8,037
From: poway
I have been doing research on all of this. While I can see what the products are supposed to do, both factory, and aftermarket, I think we're missing the most major component of all of this, and that is, "Are the mounts classified as a wear item?" If so, should they be checked, and changed as necessary?
Given the fact that there are a lot of contributing factors to the inducement of a wobble, is there something being overlooked that could cause this to happen to one bike over another, like hitting a pothole, or something that could jar the thing out of alignment in the first place? I mean, I watched the videos on the Glide-Pro site and he spent a lot of time going over exactly how to align the bike. It's obvious that it has a great deal to do with whatever else is happening concerning the wobble.
That being said, would replacing the mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation, even temporarily, and return the ride quality to new? If so, then why doesn't anyone address this in all of these threads on how to fix this?
Maybe they should put the mounts on a factory checklist to be checked at intervals in order to prevent this from occurring so often? I mean, I think it's a given that when going aftermarket, that all of the problems are categorically addressed in order to meet advertised claims, but does anything specify the interval in which bikes are checked for this? Perhaps at every tire change these things should be checked?
Any extraneous event that possibly exacerbates the condition by which mechanism the wobble begins to happen might be best addressed by a dealer, or at the very least, by a trained and certified mechanic. I think it takes more than simply saying it shouldn't happen, when it happens to all bikes regardless of the mounting. In cases like the well known CHP video, were they able to induce that wobble on multiple bikes in the same circumstances?
I know one thing. Every time I see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars. Seems that every time someone puts taller bars on their bike, they end up changing those bushings, because the bike in stock config doesn't exert the forces on them that the taller bars do. The by product of that is more vibration, but the bars would never be stable after a certain height with the softer bushings. Of course, more vibrations is subjective, as, after a while, you don't notice any. Seem like the same theory applies to the swingarm, except that the bushings in there are softer and wearing out after a while. It stands to reason that the fix would be to check the alignment, the fall away, and replace the mounts, either with factory fresh components, or aftermarket ones, if they show wear outside of certain tolerances.
Personally, I think that checking the fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any aftermarket parts do, but if the mounts are worn, or there are issues in the bearings then it won't stay that way for any length of time, and simply revert right back to the way it was before, simply due to wear, and possibly any other peculiar circumstances that might fall within tolerances. So, maybe an all or nothing approach is best. If you want it to last, change the parts out for better, and live with the vibes for a little while until they have a chance to work themselves in. Then, check it again. You might find that once the bike has settled into it's natural state that some of your initial adjustments might be off.
WHatever it is, I hope it's fixable. We all like it when our bikes ride like new.
Given the fact that there are a lot of contributing factors to the inducement of a wobble, is there something being overlooked that could cause this to happen to one bike over another, like hitting a pothole, or something that could jar the thing out of alignment in the first place? I mean, I watched the videos on the Glide-Pro site and he spent a lot of time going over exactly how to align the bike. It's obvious that it has a great deal to do with whatever else is happening concerning the wobble.
That being said, would replacing the mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation, even temporarily, and return the ride quality to new? If so, then why doesn't anyone address this in all of these threads on how to fix this?
Maybe they should put the mounts on a factory checklist to be checked at intervals in order to prevent this from occurring so often? I mean, I think it's a given that when going aftermarket, that all of the problems are categorically addressed in order to meet advertised claims, but does anything specify the interval in which bikes are checked for this? Perhaps at every tire change these things should be checked?
Any extraneous event that possibly exacerbates the condition by which mechanism the wobble begins to happen might be best addressed by a dealer, or at the very least, by a trained and certified mechanic. I think it takes more than simply saying it shouldn't happen, when it happens to all bikes regardless of the mounting. In cases like the well known CHP video, were they able to induce that wobble on multiple bikes in the same circumstances?
I know one thing. Every time I see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars. Seems that every time someone puts taller bars on their bike, they end up changing those bushings, because the bike in stock config doesn't exert the forces on them that the taller bars do. The by product of that is more vibration, but the bars would never be stable after a certain height with the softer bushings. Of course, more vibrations is subjective, as, after a while, you don't notice any. Seem like the same theory applies to the swingarm, except that the bushings in there are softer and wearing out after a while. It stands to reason that the fix would be to check the alignment, the fall away, and replace the mounts, either with factory fresh components, or aftermarket ones, if they show wear outside of certain tolerances.
Personally, I think that checking the fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any aftermarket parts do, but if the mounts are worn, or there are issues in the bearings then it won't stay that way for any length of time, and simply revert right back to the way it was before, simply due to wear, and possibly any other peculiar circumstances that might fall within tolerances. So, maybe an all or nothing approach is best. If you want it to last, change the parts out for better, and live with the vibes for a little while until they have a chance to work themselves in. Then, check it again. You might find that once the bike has settled into it's natural state that some of your initial adjustments might be off.
WHatever it is, I hope it's fixable. We all like it when our bikes ride like new.
There is a good discussion about fixing possible issues with the rubbers here...
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....c,31533.0.html
The discussion covers wear items but really doesn't get into the spherical bearings in the swingarm.. Sort of assumes that they are good..
Max
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 800
Likes: 408
From: Middle Tennessee
I have been following these types of threads for a month or so because my 2012 Road Glide picked up a really bad wobble.
The bike has 18,000 miles on it so by new measure should bushings be excessively worn. Never been down or has it hit a significant pothole.
I put new tires on about 2,000 mile ago and it was a smoother ride, but a little more twitchy than before. I thought this was probably the new tires and me getting used to them.
I've noticed that it was harder to keep tracking straight, and I had to chase the front or back of the bike in long sweeping turns. Like a car oversteering or understeering.
The big difference was that on decel, with my hands off the bars, the handlebars wobbled...BAD. Not a tank slapping bad, but really close. As bad as any video I could find on U-tube. It would get your attention.
The fall away was in factory spec, although a little on the loose end of tolerance, I checked it several times. No noticeble looseness in the forks that I could find. I thought the front tire was unbalanced though.
I talked to the service manager and he told me all Road Glides did this to some extent but he would try to get some of it out. I asked them to go over the entire bike to see what they could find.
Picked it up and it rides like a new machine. Amazing difference. No wobble at all, tracks and rides true again.
They tightened the neck bearing to a little tighter than spec, rebalanced the front tire. And did a thorough check of the entire bike.
So, as mentioned, these things settle in and go out of adjustment over time. Do it yourself, find a good mechanic, do something and check the basics first. New model touring frames have resolved most of the wobble issues, if they are in spec and stay that way. Let one get too far out and you have a handful and a bike that is not fun to ride.
Mine seemed to be a combination of things that were all aggravating each other. Best money I have spent on the bike in a while.
The bike has 18,000 miles on it so by new measure should bushings be excessively worn. Never been down or has it hit a significant pothole.
I put new tires on about 2,000 mile ago and it was a smoother ride, but a little more twitchy than before. I thought this was probably the new tires and me getting used to them.
I've noticed that it was harder to keep tracking straight, and I had to chase the front or back of the bike in long sweeping turns. Like a car oversteering or understeering.
The big difference was that on decel, with my hands off the bars, the handlebars wobbled...BAD. Not a tank slapping bad, but really close. As bad as any video I could find on U-tube. It would get your attention.
The fall away was in factory spec, although a little on the loose end of tolerance, I checked it several times. No noticeble looseness in the forks that I could find. I thought the front tire was unbalanced though.
I talked to the service manager and he told me all Road Glides did this to some extent but he would try to get some of it out. I asked them to go over the entire bike to see what they could find.
Picked it up and it rides like a new machine. Amazing difference. No wobble at all, tracks and rides true again.
They tightened the neck bearing to a little tighter than spec, rebalanced the front tire. And did a thorough check of the entire bike.
So, as mentioned, these things settle in and go out of adjustment over time. Do it yourself, find a good mechanic, do something and check the basics first. New model touring frames have resolved most of the wobble issues, if they are in spec and stay that way. Let one get too far out and you have a handful and a bike that is not fun to ride.
Mine seemed to be a combination of things that were all aggravating each other. Best money I have spent on the bike in a while.
Thread Starter
|
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Likes: 3
From: Chantilly VA
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS REGARDINGTHE LAST THREE POSTS:
"Are themounts classified as a wear item?"
NO but theydo wear. Please note that MOCO factory mounts are not as good as after marketmounts.
"Could hittinga pothole jar the bike thing out of alignment?"
YES.
"Would replacingthe mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation?"
YES but ifyoure scooter is showing a tendency to wobble, DO NOTassume its just onething. More often than not, its a combination of things listed in the firstpage of this thread.
"EverytimeI see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars."
Handlebars willnot cause a wobble. Its the handlebars where you feel it most. Depending onthe year of your ride (mine is a 99), the MOCO does have better, firmerhandlebar bushings.
"Checkingthe fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any after marketparts do."
CORRECT. You donot always need after market parts. Making adjustments for wear and tearwithout buying new parts is always a preferred approach.
"The discussioncovers wear items but really doesn't get into the spherical bearings in theswingarm."
The swing armhas cylindrIcal bearings and they do wear, but this is an exception, not therule.
"The bikehas 18,000 miles on it; could the bushings be excessively worn. I've noticedthat its harder to keep tracking straight, and I had to chase thefront or backof the bike in long sweeping turns." NOT LIKELY, but I have seen front wheel bearings go bad with thatamount of mileage. Front fork bearings may also loosen up.
"Mine seemedto be a combination of things that were all aggravating each other." THATS THE NORM. When a yourride starts showing a tendency to wobble, its typically a combination ofthings. Top of the list is tire pressure, front fork bearing adjustment, andalignment,
"Are themounts classified as a wear item?"
NO but theydo wear. Please note that MOCO factory mounts are not as good as after marketmounts.
"Could hittinga pothole jar the bike thing out of alignment?"
YES.
"Would replacingthe mounts with other factory spec parts actually fix the situation?"
YES but ifyoure scooter is showing a tendency to wobble, DO NOTassume its just onething. More often than not, its a combination of things listed in the firstpage of this thread.
"EverytimeI see the fix kits for the stabilizer bushings, I think about the handlebars."
Handlebars willnot cause a wobble. Its the handlebars where you feel it most. Depending onthe year of your ride (mine is a 99), the MOCO does have better, firmerhandlebar bushings.
"Checkingthe fall-away and the alignment does more to fix the issue than any after marketparts do."
CORRECT. You donot always need after market parts. Making adjustments for wear and tearwithout buying new parts is always a preferred approach.
"The discussioncovers wear items but really doesn't get into the spherical bearings in theswingarm."
The swing armhas cylindrIcal bearings and they do wear, but this is an exception, not therule.
"The bikehas 18,000 miles on it; could the bushings be excessively worn. I've noticedthat its harder to keep tracking straight, and I had to chase thefront or backof the bike in long sweeping turns." NOT LIKELY, but I have seen front wheel bearings go bad with thatamount of mileage. Front fork bearings may also loosen up.
"Mine seemedto be a combination of things that were all aggravating each other." THATS THE NORM. When a yourride starts showing a tendency to wobble, its typically a combination ofthings. Top of the list is tire pressure, front fork bearing adjustment, andalignment,
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Joe Kucinski
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 6,191
Likes: 2,423
From: USA
[/FONT][/COLOR]"The discussioncovers wear items but really doesn't get into the spherical bearings in theswingarm."
The swing armhas cylindrIcal bearings and they do wear, but this is an exception, not therule.
"The bikehas 18,000 miles on it; could the bushings be excessively worn. I've noticedthat its harder to keep tracking straight, and I had to chase thefront or backof the bike in long sweeping turns." NOT LIKELY, but I have seen front wheel bearings go bad with thatamount of mileage. Front fork bearings may also loosen up. [COLOR=black][FONT="Verdana"]