The topic of what can and cannot be modified while not impacting our warranty has been often tossed around. We assume the MoCo has to prove the modification caused the damage according to the Magnuson Moss warranty act, which to the best of my understanding is true. The problem lies when the MoCo or a dealer will not look at or trouble shoot the problem because the owner or someone has made modifications to their motorcycle. So hang on to you shorts because this is going to be a long ride.

My dad has been caught up in a bit of warranty hell since early June of this year. I will outline some of the problems and issues so other may learn and form their own opinions on whether or not they want to wrench on their own motorcycles. I will not name names because I feel the only thing to relay is the problem and the out come. His trike has SE255 cams, SE Stage 1 air cleaner, SE 4" mufflers and Jagg 10 row oil cooler. It has been tuned using the SEST.

Late this spring my dads 09 Triglide started to hesitate, buck and pop out the throttle body and sometimes the exhaust in the area of 2,500 - 3,000 rpm at a steady throttle position. At first I was thinking a lean spot in the map so I treated it as such and made changes to the tune. I would upload the map and it would run good for anywhere from 100 - 200 miles then start acting up again. I would make some more tweaks, upload the new map and it would run good once again then decay after a spell. Just for grins I replaced the spark plug wires and spark plugs which had not effect on it. Finally early June he took it to the dealer to trouble shoot and repair.

They replaced the intake gaskets, a front injector and the Automatic compression releases with no luck at solving the problem. The service department then contacted tech services who told them to flash the ECM back to stock and see if it ran better which it did. So they then directed the dealer to upload the Stage 2 map contained on the SEST disk. The trike ran much better and exhibited none of the previous problems. The service manager road the trike for 60 miles and I road it for an additional 120 miles all with no problems. The excuse from Harley Tech services was the map I had uploaded was outside parameters, the skeptic in me knew better. At the time my dad was on vacation so he had yet to pick it up.

The day he picked up his trike he had to pay some of the charges for trouble shooting the problem because Tech services said I caused the problem. I was at work the day he picked it up so I couldn't be their. I received a phone call at work from my dad asking me if I had noticed the engine kick back when starting it after it had gotten hot. I hadn't because I didn't start it while it was heat soaked when I had it out riding it. I told him the ACR's were not enabled and to get the dealer to enable them. He got with the service manager who assured him the ACR's were enabled.

After getting the trike back, my dad road it to make sure all was well before we went to South Dakota. There were no issues on any of those rides or while on the trip to and from SD, now remember I'm still skeptical because intermittent problems can come and go. Well he gets back from SD and the Trike starts acting up once again, back to the dealer it goes. This time he is told a HD rep has to come and look at it.

Well the day the HD rep comes to town neither my dad or I can be at the dealers, I regret not being able to be there as I know he does also but other more pressing things were going on. Anyway just as soon as this HD rep was told we put cams in the trike they refused to ride it or look at it and blamed the problem on the cams. To rub salt in the wound they also flagged the warranty so any claims are on a case by case basis and have to be reviewed and authorized by the MoCo first.

My dad took his trike home and scheduled a meeting with the owner which I also attended. Out of the meeting came another call from the service manager to tech services about this problem. The person from tech services advised them to have my dad get it tuned on a dyno, they said the map was not even close and so it needed a dyno tune. The person from tech services advised us to upload a fresh map before my dad road it to the tuner so it would run right on the trip there. Me being the skeptic I remembered when I said the ACR's were not enabled. One neat feature of the SEST is the last map that has been uploaded is stored in the VCI. Me being the skeptic I am I downloaded the map from the VCI and looked at it. Sure enough the ACR's were not enabled, I guess the dealer tech needs a little more schooling.

One thing that can trip folks up when using the Stage 2 touring map is by default the ACR's are disabled. You have to enable them before you upload the map, silly me I knew this and I didn't have the benefit of a Harley Davidson sponsored education.

The dyno tune took place at another Harley dealer which is a good thing because one of the 1st thing the tech found was a bad rear O2 sensor. Remember me being the skeptic, I was right to be one. The O2 sensor was the problem according to the tech because it kept going on and off line and setting a code which is how he found it. The sensor has been replaced and the trike has been tuned and runs much better.

Another meeting was scheduled with the owner to let him know the outcome of the dyno tune and the finding of the bad O2 sensor. The owner was good enough to give my dad the money back he spent back in June on trouble shooting the problem. However we were informed that the dealer ship will not touch the engines in our trikes. They are unwilling to work on something that someone else has tampered with.

So some food for thought. A great deal of us work on our own stuff because we either feel we can do the job better than a rushed tech at the dealer, or we like to tinker and save a buck. The modifications we make can indeed cause us some grief down the road. Sure we can use the Magnuson Moss warranty act, but while it winds its way through the court the motorcycle will still be broken and just sitting. Not to mention the money you may have to put out on attorney fees.

 

MS3, was the problem that you did the work and/or that the mods were done in the first place?
I am also getting the SE255s because I wanted to move the torque curve to the left, while keeping the warranty gods happy. I'm hoping that them doing the cam will keep me out of hot water in the coming year.

Thanks a million for the story. It sheds much insight on how things are now.

 

Do the modifications necessary to get the underpowered oven to run something minimum acceptable plus cool it off and play Russian roulette the warranty, OR ride the oven as is and hope it holds together until you get out from under the warranty.

One of the reasons I just went with the XIED's "can pull in 5 minutes" and have not done the Cams is the warranty. As I said my stock headpipe has sealed mummy wrap and I don't think a nosy tech would unwrap it. Kind of like chinese water torture having to ride a near stock Tri glide and wondering how much damage all that heat is causing, plus the constipated dog gets passed by little old men on Scooters.

I got it cooled down enough to feel better about the long term service life but frustrated with the power band. I was an idiot to buy from Harley Davidson, just to much bulls#*t and hoops to jump through to own that brand anymore.

Catch 22 situation, you fix their sorry engineering in order to own a Trike you can actually enjoy, you void the warranty! I went to the dealer I bought my Tri from to get a quote on the 11 primary pulley change. They won't even call me back! So as in my case you can't even get the dealer to make a non warranty issue correction at my expense.

All I can say at this point is never again!

 

Excellent write up Mike. I’m sorry to hear about your problem but this raises some concerns I have had about warrantees and extended warrantees for some time.

Rather than risk high-jacking your excellent threat, I’m going start a separate on
extended warranties.

Thanks again.

Jim

 

It is a shame, I really do like the TG, the way I sit in it, the looks, fit and finish etc....but the under power, hot motor makes me think I should have bought another Gold Wing trike....my last trike was a wing with a California Sidecar kit and had no issues, ran strong and looked good too...the foot position was my only issue...hind sight being 20/20....oh well..

 

The problem is we installed the cams and not the dealer. It is a double edge sword when making modifications even when the dealer does it. There are guys who have a dealer make changes because the dealer says they will warranty it, what the customer doesn't realize is depending on the modification performed their dealer could get them locked up in warranty jail. I've seen guys who choose all SE parts thinking the warranty won't be impacted because the installing dealer said their good to go. Problem is when your 1,000 miles from home and a different dealer has to fix a broken valve or some other broken engine part only to learn the bike isn't stock and tells HD what they found, you could be out of pocket to fix it.

HD will only cover certain SE parts that are installed by the dealer, its kind of like trying to walk a field of razor blades and not get cut. I figured at the time there would be a 50% chance there could be issues if something was to turn up. I was confidant then as I am not that if push was to come to shove we could prevail, especially when the problem is not related to the work performed. In the case of the problem with the O2 sensor it was not caused by the installation of cams, it is an electronic part that simply failed. I do wish I would have checked for codes early on because I could have found that problem and saved all the hassle. The flip side is the servicing dealer should have found the code while they had it hooked to the digital technician.

While on the subject of dealers this leaves me with another observation. Back in June while the dealer was working on trouble shooting the problem, they mentioned how it would run poorly at idle. At the time I didn't think about it, but later I figured it out when the service manager mentioned how they let it set outside and idle. When my dad took the trike to the dealer it didn't have an idle problem, it was off idle where it got rough. The servicing dealer was letting the trike sit and idle until the EIMTS kicked in, no wonder it would idle like crap. They didn't even have a clue the EIMTS had kicked in and the rear cylinder has shutdown like it was designed to do.

 

This is a subject my dad and I talk about often. There are times I really wish I would have bought the Wing I was looking at. We had a dealer that was about 45 miles from me who was sitting on a brand new Silver 07 Wing I thought about dealing on then having it triked. If I would have had a crystal ball at the time I would have followed through with my plan. I think with some highway pegs and other changes I could have gotten the Wing to fit me pretty good.

 

Let me preface this by stating I love me Harley..but having owned 2 wing trikes and now a TG...night and day as for performance...and rider comfort. I'm short legged and I tried all types of hwy pegs..never could quite get it right. I know what the girls go through at the doctors office...

The 07 we had was a super trike, IDS, wide track, handled very well..just the damn foot position killed me.

I even looked at the Victory Cross Bow and though about a Yamaha Venture and triking it, all have forward floorboards, but I didn't like the two storage areas of the Cross Bow ( in the rear fenders)...and having one triked can be expensive...after all said and done I had around 40,000 in the GW trike including the Bushtec Trailer...course we had all the options except the rear light bar...loved the 3.5 aux fuel tank...didn't use it often but nice knowing I could go 300 miles before re-fueling...

My brand loyalty is getting very thin with HD....I feel MOCO is becoming like everything else when it comes to it's customer base....disposiable.
Most of what we buy now days is disposable...use it and when it stops, throw it away and buy another...MOCO? well, when a customer has enough and moves on to another brand of motorcycle, who cares??? another one will come in and take his place...customer service, thing of the past most of the time...

PS: The wife says passenger comfort is 100% better on the wing....oh well..what ya gonna do?

 

If I had only known what I was going to run into I would have triked my 06 Ultra that I had planned on doing. I do like my 09 TG but the way MOCO is doing their warranty program, the warranty is pretty much useless.

I stayed with the SE 255 cams and the SEST figuring I wouldn't have a warranty problem. If I had known back then I would have installed Woods cams and used a TTS.

The main reason I didn't trike my 06 Ultra was because of the 2 year that came with the TG. I didn't know that the TG would be way underpowered and the gearing sucks. Other than that I am happy with it. As I have stated before it rides and handles good and the most important thing my wife is comfortable. As you all should know if Moms happy everyone is happy.

I will be writing a letter to the CEO letting him know of my displeasure. Word of mouth can kill the TG platform and that would be a shame as they could be a terrific trike.

 

When you look at some of the changes they have made with the Twin Cam you can see Harley is moving towards a more disposable product. It used to be you could replace or rebuild almost every part on a Harley, not so anymore.