Getting tired of starting issues
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,474
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From: pacific northwest
The new problem did, yes. I've been getting the intermittent (almost exclusively when hot - like when stopping for gas after a 5 min heat soak, etc.) slow turn over with vinerr since new (march 2016) which seemed to be reduced by the timing retard, bur the rat tat tat tat tat tat (grinding) issue is new. Got it maybe twice since I bought the bike, but had it two times in the last week.
haha, yeah. I love going to the service writer and not be able to recreate the problem. One time in June last, I went to have them look at the vinerr, and it wouldn't do it. Tech started it 10 times just fine. So I go in and pick up some crap from the parts dept, get on the bike, and bang, it does it.
At this point it always started, so I decided to just ignore it. But the grinding is something I don't want to ignore.
I'll change the tune and see how it runs for a while.
It's gonna dump 10" of snow on us on tues so I won't be out for a while anyway...
haha, yeah. I love going to the service writer and not be able to recreate the problem. One time in June last, I went to have them look at the vinerr, and it wouldn't do it. Tech started it 10 times just fine. So I go in and pick up some crap from the parts dept, get on the bike, and bang, it does it.
At this point it always started, so I decided to just ignore it. But the grinding is something I don't want to ignore.
I'll change the tune and see how it runs for a while.
It's gonna dump 10" of snow on us on tues so I won't be out for a while anyway...
Last edited by MRFREEZE57; Mar 13, 2017 at 08:24 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 714
Likes: 120
when you describe the rat tat tat sound, that almost sounds like the starter is getting insufficient control voltage. the HD starter appears to operate much like the old delco starters used on Chevrolets years back, when the solenoid is powered up, the core pulls in and then closes the heavy current switch which runs the motor. if the control voltage to the solenoid is sometimes insufficient, would cause the solenoid to jump in and out making that rat tat tat sound. when the condition re occurs, you might try jumping 12v direct to the solenoid terminal and see if it still fails, anyway it may rule out a control voltage problem. I would think if it were a weak starter motor, it would more likely lug and labor heavy to crank the engine. just a couple guesses, electrical problems, especially inconsistent ones can be a pain to find.
Sitting in your garage and reducing load on start up is great, as it proves an easier load on the motor can be measured on fire up, if timing is taken out (one of my points several posts ago).
It can cover for, or mask, battery (voltage) load strength if battery is fully charged in a controlled, cool environment. It may not save you in the real world when ambient is 100 plus, and you have just ridden for a few hours, and need to stop for gas, and re-start in a hot soak condition.
As said above, it may be a straight voltage weakness (as I have found IME), or a relay, wire, loose cable, loose ground, bad starter button, or other issue impeding voltage current to starter.
Either way, it needs to be sorted out and solved-
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Club Member
Joined: Dec 2014
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From: SWFL
Just to say, I only know the battery cables are tight. I installed 4ga cables so the starter and ground cables a couple weeks ago while chasing this gremlin. That and a new Yuasa 310 ah battery.
I haven't checked the solonoid wire yet. Wish I knew this while I had the battery box out - makes it easier I expect.
The retarded starting timing seems to have made a difference, but I won't know for sure until I can actually ride - damn this nor'easter. Looking at that miserable white stuff out my window this morning...
I haven't checked the solonoid wire yet. Wish I knew this while I had the battery box out - makes it easier I expect.
The retarded starting timing seems to have made a difference, but I won't know for sure until I can actually ride - damn this nor'easter. Looking at that miserable white stuff out my window this morning...
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Club Member
Joined: Dec 2014
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From: SWFL
Here's are perfect videos showing both the problems I had. The first isn't mine, but he posts a video of exactly the ratatatatatatatatat "grinding" sound I was describing, and the second is a video I posted of the vinerr and hard start i got at other heat soak starts.
Last edited by Mchad; Mar 14, 2017 at 07:30 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: South of Mordor
Mchad, that first video you posts is a new sound to me, but does not sound good at all. The second video you posted sound the same as my bike did when I had hot starting issues after get gas or other brief stops and an occasional cold start.
I am not 100% sure that my comp sprocket replacement to the Baker is going to fix the issue, time will tell. But, after pulling the OEM rotor and seeing all the play in the comp springs, I can't imaging that it is normal to have that much play in them (they do have 55,000 miles on them). I know the newer SE setup is a little different, but it still uses the same concept and I can't see your springs loosing the tension on a new ride like yours.
I hope your tune adjustment solves your issue and you can get back to enjoying your bike.
Here is a video to show what I am referring to, so others can see it.
I am not 100% sure that my comp sprocket replacement to the Baker is going to fix the issue, time will tell. But, after pulling the OEM rotor and seeing all the play in the comp springs, I can't imaging that it is normal to have that much play in them (they do have 55,000 miles on them). I know the newer SE setup is a little different, but it still uses the same concept and I can't see your springs loosing the tension on a new ride like yours.
I hope your tune adjustment solves your issue and you can get back to enjoying your bike.
Here is a video to show what I am referring to, so others can see it.
That first video is a dead battery...or at least low voltage. On my 15 FXDL, I had to have the battery replaced after 11 months. They tested the battery and 2 cells were dead and it wouldn't take a load. I was having the same V inner Errors and they got worse and worse. I would keep the battery on the tender, and that would help for a couple days, but eventually the bike just wouldn't start except with a jump box.
I now have a 17 FXDLS and haven't had any issues...yet...
I now have a 17 FXDLS and haven't had any issues...yet...
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2009
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That first video is a dead battery...or at least low voltage. On my 15 FXDL, I had to have the battery replaced after 11 months. They tested the battery and 2 cells were dead and it wouldn't take a load. I was having the same V inner Errors and they got worse and worse. I would keep the battery on the tender, and that would help for a couple days, but eventually the bike just wouldn't start except with a jump box.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: Minnesota
Getting to be a long thread.
Maybe your bike is just hard to start. It's not the only one.
Mine starts hard every once in awhile.(makes a funny noise too)
I always just thought Harley's do that some times.
So what?
(ever try to kick a cold panhead?)
Maybe your bike is just hard to start. It's not the only one.
Mine starts hard every once in awhile.(makes a funny noise too)
I always just thought Harley's do that some times.
So what?
(ever try to kick a cold panhead?)
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: pacific northwest
M CHAD, that first video almost sounds like a mechanical noise such as the starter clutch not holding, or gear not fully engaged. if you have the tools and feel comfortable doing so, I recommend you pull the starter and check the gears and overrunning clutch assy.
