Am I Leaving Anything on the Table?
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Novice
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 20
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From: West Virginia
Am I Leaving Anything on the Table?
Hello. Question for you guys. I have a 2010 Wide Glide that I have done some extensive work to over the years. The current setup is a 124 S&S high compression crate motor with the 640 cams, Screaming Eagle 50mm TB, 6.2 injectors, K&N stock replacement air filter with no cover, V&H Big Radius 2 into 2, Power Vision with Target Tune, AIM variable pressure clutch with Kevlar clutches and 1 extra friction, drive chain conversion. All work and tuning has been done by me.
When I took it to the track this year, it ran a best of 11.87 at 114 mph. Most passes were around 12.1. 60 foots were around 1.96. There is probably some left in it with just a better rider, as I am not the most experience drag racer. This bike is a general purpose bike. I putt around town, go on 1000 mile rides, commute with it, and then the occasional drag strip weekend when I meet up with my cousin who races actual drag bikes.
Here is my question: Does this sound like a reasonable track time for my setup? I guess Im thinking that it should be somewhat faster with the setup I have. The bike ran mid-13s when it was a stock 96 with just pipes. Seems like it should have lost more than a second and a half with all the work. It feels pretty stout on the street, but I feel like it has more in it. Or maybe I need to change a few parts. I know that the current pipes probably arent the best. I tried a Bassani Road Rage 2 into 1 and it actually killed the power and created a bad detonation issue that I couldnt tune out. I know the TB is probably a bit small but probably not hurting me too bad. The air cleaner may not be the best either but again probably not going to pick up a lot with something else.
One place I could see helping is getting an actual dyno tune. The problem is that I feel like I have the tune dialed in fairly well with my Target Tune. Ive made quite a few revisions and feel like the AFR is really close under all conditions. Its hard to imagine a dyno tune adding a whole lot. Another problem is that I dont want to take the bike 500 miles to a good dyno tuner, pay for tuning, and then end up changing exhaust or cams or any number of things later and then having to do it all over again.
Sorry for the long winded post, but trying to get across all the info. Any thoughts are appreciated.
When I took it to the track this year, it ran a best of 11.87 at 114 mph. Most passes were around 12.1. 60 foots were around 1.96. There is probably some left in it with just a better rider, as I am not the most experience drag racer. This bike is a general purpose bike. I putt around town, go on 1000 mile rides, commute with it, and then the occasional drag strip weekend when I meet up with my cousin who races actual drag bikes.
Here is my question: Does this sound like a reasonable track time for my setup? I guess Im thinking that it should be somewhat faster with the setup I have. The bike ran mid-13s when it was a stock 96 with just pipes. Seems like it should have lost more than a second and a half with all the work. It feels pretty stout on the street, but I feel like it has more in it. Or maybe I need to change a few parts. I know that the current pipes probably arent the best. I tried a Bassani Road Rage 2 into 1 and it actually killed the power and created a bad detonation issue that I couldnt tune out. I know the TB is probably a bit small but probably not hurting me too bad. The air cleaner may not be the best either but again probably not going to pick up a lot with something else.
One place I could see helping is getting an actual dyno tune. The problem is that I feel like I have the tune dialed in fairly well with my Target Tune. Ive made quite a few revisions and feel like the AFR is really close under all conditions. Its hard to imagine a dyno tune adding a whole lot. Another problem is that I dont want to take the bike 500 miles to a good dyno tuner, pay for tuning, and then end up changing exhaust or cams or any number of things later and then having to do it all over again.
Sorry for the long winded post, but trying to get across all the info. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 259
From: Northstreet, michigan
Honestly, I'd wait on anymore upgrades til you get better at drag racing since you mentioned you're not the best. I personally find 11s impressive, but understand where you're coming from with expecting better. Practice launching and dragging more and see what that does to your times. Also compare with other similar builds on here and on YouTube.
You ou could have a baseline dyno done (I paid 50 bucks for mine) just to see what your numbers are and see if you're running rich/lean at any point throughout the rpm range. For instance I'm running 15.0:1 in higher rpms so I need a dyno tune. But the results of the baseline should give you an idea of how well it's tuned or if there's any room for improvement if you get a dyno tune.
I really don't think the air cleaner would be hurting you but if you find a good deal on a 58mm or bigger, it might be worth a shot. Especially since you have the 6.2 injectors. I have 5.3s on my 117. And this is the first I've ever heard of complaints with the road rage hurting performance. As I've stated in the past, it seems like every dyno sheet I see (with my same 117 setup and a road rage exhaust) are significantly higher than other exhausts like my fatcat. And I truly hate to admit that cause I love my fatcat. But there's been quite a few dyno sheets with the rr that were a good 10 hp/tq higher than mine. You might also want to call s&s and see if theh have any suggestions or if they think there's any room for improvement. It really sounds like you have a hell of a good setup to me. Hope this helps
You ou could have a baseline dyno done (I paid 50 bucks for mine) just to see what your numbers are and see if you're running rich/lean at any point throughout the rpm range. For instance I'm running 15.0:1 in higher rpms so I need a dyno tune. But the results of the baseline should give you an idea of how well it's tuned or if there's any room for improvement if you get a dyno tune.
I really don't think the air cleaner would be hurting you but if you find a good deal on a 58mm or bigger, it might be worth a shot. Especially since you have the 6.2 injectors. I have 5.3s on my 117. And this is the first I've ever heard of complaints with the road rage hurting performance. As I've stated in the past, it seems like every dyno sheet I see (with my same 117 setup and a road rage exhaust) are significantly higher than other exhausts like my fatcat. And I truly hate to admit that cause I love my fatcat. But there's been quite a few dyno sheets with the rr that were a good 10 hp/tq higher than mine. You might also want to call s&s and see if theh have any suggestions or if they think there's any room for improvement. It really sounds like you have a hell of a good setup to me. Hope this helps
Last edited by Nickd2689; Dec 28, 2017 at 08:18 AM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 259
From: Northstreet, michigan
Forgot to ask, but are you still running the road rage, or did you switch? A good tuner should be able to resolve your detonation issue and again, I've never heard anything but good things about that exhaust
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,741
Likes: 8,538
From: Bates County MO
That 60' time will get a lot better with practice- and every .1 you shave at the beginning, you should see a reduction of .2 at the big end. Proper tune addresses timing as well as fuel, and there's no guarantee your target tune is getting a proper 02 feedback because of bung placement or reversion. Spend a few bucks to get a baseline set of pulls, using whichever pipe/TB you are going to run, just to see where you are at. Then decide which way to go on the tune.
Measure twice, cut once kind of thing...
Measure twice, cut once kind of thing...
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Novice
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: West Virginia
Yea Id like to put my cousin on it and see what it will do. He has been drag racing bikes for 15 years and has won a few track championships so I know he can get 99% of its capability out of it. We just didnt have enough time when I was at the track with it. I wouldnt be surprised if he could find a couple tenths left in it.
I actually started a thread about the Bassanis last year when I had a 107 motor. The funny thing is that both motors (107 and 124) have done the exact same thing. No power below about 3500 rpm and horrible detonation. I tried everything imaginable with tuning to no avail. When two COMPLETELY different motors, injectors, intakes, and tunes do the exact same thing, it leads me to believe there is no hope for the pipes. Its not like one motor had some strange cam/head combination that the pipes didnt work well with. Its a shame, because I really liked the looks of those pipes. Its also strange because I havent read a similar negative review about the pipes, which is why I bought them in the first place. I really had high hopes for them, and just my luck, Im the one person that has issues. Heres the thread with some more info:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...road-rage.html
As far as running it on a dyno to check the current map, I did run it on a local dyno last year when I had the 107 and my tuning from the Target Tune. The AFR was spot on and smooth across the whole rev range. Thats another reason that I feel the Target Tune is getting me very close. I really dont feel like Im going to pick up another 15 hp with some tuning adjustments, but I could be wrong.
I actually started a thread about the Bassanis last year when I had a 107 motor. The funny thing is that both motors (107 and 124) have done the exact same thing. No power below about 3500 rpm and horrible detonation. I tried everything imaginable with tuning to no avail. When two COMPLETELY different motors, injectors, intakes, and tunes do the exact same thing, it leads me to believe there is no hope for the pipes. Its not like one motor had some strange cam/head combination that the pipes didnt work well with. Its a shame, because I really liked the looks of those pipes. Its also strange because I havent read a similar negative review about the pipes, which is why I bought them in the first place. I really had high hopes for them, and just my luck, Im the one person that has issues. Heres the thread with some more info:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/gener...road-rage.html
As far as running it on a dyno to check the current map, I did run it on a local dyno last year when I had the 107 and my tuning from the Target Tune. The AFR was spot on and smooth across the whole rev range. Thats another reason that I feel the Target Tune is getting me very close. I really dont feel like Im going to pick up another 15 hp with some tuning adjustments, but I could be wrong.
or something like:
rb lsr
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21.htm
fatcat or boarzilla.. more flow...
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/...-davidson/dyna
rb lsr
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21.htm
fatcat or boarzilla.. more flow...
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/...-davidson/dyna
Last edited by cvaria; Dec 28, 2017 at 09:09 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 4,998
Likes: 877
From: Iowa
That's a pretty decent time. The only thing I see is some better exhaust flow. +1 on the FatCat and base dyno run. The dyno run would show you where you might need some manual tune adjustment and prove that the clutch isn't slipping at any point.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,066
Likes: 259
From: Northstreet, michigan
or something like:
rb lsr
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21.htm
fatcat or boarzilla.. more flow...
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/...-davidson/dyna
rb lsr
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/lsr21.htm
fatcat or boarzilla.. more flow...
http://www.danddexhaust.com/catalog/...-davidson/dyna
I'd go fatcat 100% but i still find it weird that you're even having this problem. Possibly a defective product?
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Tourer
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 433
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From: Cape Coral, FL
I’ve never 1/4 miles a bike but have a ton of car experience. You need to improve your 60’. 1.9x isn’t too bad but you need to do better. As Mentioned above, 1 tenth in the first 60’ makes a big difference on the big end.
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Novice
Joined: Jun 2016
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From: West Virginia
Yea I know the 60 is important and I probably stand to improve. One problem was that, as I was pushing the 60 foot harder, I was starting to spin off the line, so there actually may not be that much left. I felt like I was walking the fine line of spinning and not launching hard enough already.
Keep in mind that my end goal isnt to have a crazy ź mile ET. The drag times are really just a measure to see where Im at with my upgrades. My ultimate goal is to have a fun, reliable, well rounded bar hopper/touring bike that is a blast when you twist the throttle on the street. So Im more or less looking to see if my current track times sound in the ballpark for my mods. And honestly, half the reason I enjoy upgrading my bike is the fun I have in the winter giving me something to do in the garage, relax, drink a beer, and listen to some country music.
I will look into some of those pipes. The problem with pipes is that I must like the way they look and sound. Since this is a general purpose bike and not an all out drag bike, I dont want to give up looks and sound for a few more HP. Another problem is that not all pipes fit on this motor, as the S&S cam chest cover sticks out farther than the stock cover. In my experience, S&S and the pipe manufacturers cant really tell you whether it will fit or not, so it ends up being an expensive trial and error. I had to modify the V&H Big Radius pipes a little just to get them to fit. I was thinking about trying the Thunderheader off my buddys Street Glide to see if I like the sound, performance, and fit.
I appreciate everyones input so far.
Keep in mind that my end goal isnt to have a crazy ź mile ET. The drag times are really just a measure to see where Im at with my upgrades. My ultimate goal is to have a fun, reliable, well rounded bar hopper/touring bike that is a blast when you twist the throttle on the street. So Im more or less looking to see if my current track times sound in the ballpark for my mods. And honestly, half the reason I enjoy upgrading my bike is the fun I have in the winter giving me something to do in the garage, relax, drink a beer, and listen to some country music.
I will look into some of those pipes. The problem with pipes is that I must like the way they look and sound. Since this is a general purpose bike and not an all out drag bike, I dont want to give up looks and sound for a few more HP. Another problem is that not all pipes fit on this motor, as the S&S cam chest cover sticks out farther than the stock cover. In my experience, S&S and the pipe manufacturers cant really tell you whether it will fit or not, so it ends up being an expensive trial and error. I had to modify the V&H Big Radius pipes a little just to get them to fit. I was thinking about trying the Thunderheader off my buddys Street Glide to see if I like the sound, performance, and fit.
I appreciate everyones input so far.