6-speed
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Joined: Jul 2005
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RE: 6-speed
1:1 means only that the output shaft of the transmission turns at the same rate as the input shaft. Don't forget that the primary drive is a reduction, and the final drive (belt) is also reduction. If the rear wheel turned at 1:1 with the engine you would be going about 180 MPH at 3000 RPM. What matters is RPM at any given speed. If you had a .89:1 overdrive, then lowered the final drive ratio by either reducing the front sprocket by 10% or increasing the rear by the same amount, you would have a wash in top gear. I personally don't like overdrives because they only compensate for less than perfect design. When a large gear is meshed with a smaller gear (overdrive) wear is accelerated on the driven gear set. The perfect gear drive is 1:1 since all gear teeth are on exactly the same diametrical plane. The simplest way to reduce RPMs in top gear is to change the final drive ratio (belt). This unfortunately changes all of the speed ratios of the transmission. That is why more gears are added to the box.
Helical cut gears are quieter and do not lash as much as straight cut gears. The teeth mesh at an angle. Straight cut gears do not. Straight cut gears are noisier and are more prone to lash or that chug a chug feeling. Helical gears have more tooth surface in contact than do straight cut gears. Helical gears can transmit more torque at smaller sizes than straight gears. This is how 6 gears fit in the space formerly occupied by 5.
Helical cut gears are quieter and do not lash as much as straight cut gears. The teeth mesh at an angle. Straight cut gears do not. Straight cut gears are noisier and are more prone to lash or that chug a chug feeling. Helical gears have more tooth surface in contact than do straight cut gears. Helical gears can transmit more torque at smaller sizes than straight gears. This is how 6 gears fit in the space formerly occupied by 5.
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RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
I can tell you, its the axial loads placed upon the bearing from the transmission shaft directly. The needle and double row output bearings really arent designed for high axial/thrust loads, they should have used traditional tapered roller bearings, but good quality tapered bearings are bucks and require proper endplay to maximise their radial load carrying ability, this in turn means that every transmission would need to be checked manually to make sure everything is within spec from unit to unit, this drives up mfg. cost. I am doing research to see if there is an off the shelf Timken tapered roller bearing that can be used as a direct replacement.
ORIGINAL: pococj
I'd seen this before. Wondered why the inner primary bearing was causing the heartache? Is it possible the thrust is being transmitted to this bearing by the transmission, or is it caused by something only semi-related?
I'd seen this before. Wondered why the inner primary bearing was causing the heartache? Is it possible the thrust is being transmitted to this bearing by the transmission, or is it caused by something only semi-related?
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,034
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RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
http://articles.news.aol.com/busines...23144209990008
I could be wrong there, who knows, but a few employees at HD of Washington stated there were a few remote accidents with some minor injuries......whether there thats true or not, its still a defect that can be dangerous.
http://articles.news.aol.com/busines...23144209990008
I could be wrong there, who knows, but a few employees at HD of Washington stated there were a few remote accidents with some minor injuries......whether there thats true or not, its still a defect that can be dangerous.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
No, I stated that the new transmission has issues yet to be resolved and as they stand now, I also stated that long term durability on the transmission is still in question, and that time will tell how good they really are. You have a habit of taking my words out of context so please quote away, but make sure the quote is COMPLETE and in line with other statements I made in the past
No, I stated that the new transmission has issues yet to be resolved and as they stand now, I also stated that long term durability on the transmission is still in question, and that time will tell how good they really are. You have a habit of taking my words out of context so please quote away, but make sure the quote is COMPLETE and in line with other statements I made in the past
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
Again out of context, I stated orignally: Straight cut will 'whine' the faster they go but offer 1. More directional application of force allowing for less power loss. and 2. Higher acceptable loads until failure. So in one sense on a tooth per tooth basis straight cut gears are stronger naturally. I also stated in another thread: HD's new "helical cut" gears arent of the same quality as their older straight cut gears. Did you know that? Do some research and tell us your findings of the difference. Second, I already mentioned the fact that helical gears have more teeth in contact at all times, thats not in question, but directional applied force is a big issue, one you probably dont understand and continue to avoid. And thrust load is another big issue and a big downside to helical gears.
Again out of context, I stated orignally: Straight cut will 'whine' the faster they go but offer 1. More directional application of force allowing for less power loss. and 2. Higher acceptable loads until failure. So in one sense on a tooth per tooth basis straight cut gears are stronger naturally. I also stated in another thread: HD's new "helical cut" gears arent of the same quality as their older straight cut gears. Did you know that? Do some research and tell us your findings of the difference. Second, I already mentioned the fact that helical gears have more teeth in contact at all times, thats not in question, but directional applied force is a big issue, one you probably dont understand and continue to avoid. And thrust load is another big issue and a big downside to helical gears.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
So there are varying angles on the whole "strength" issue, and you have to weigh all the tangibles in a logical fashion. But all your doing Jamie is is taking part of what I said and trying to twist it to your own advantage, and not looking at the issue as a whole in a logical approach.
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So there are varying angles on the whole "strength" issue, and you have to weigh all the tangibles in a logical fashion. But all your doing Jamie is is taking part of what I said and trying to twist it to your own advantage, and not looking at the issue as a whole in a logical approach.
[/color]
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
Your not understanding something here. Nobody is arguing the fact that the cruise drive 6 speed drops engine speed a few hundred rpm lower over the stock 5 speed(or more accurately the way its currently geared)as its currently set up. What the argument is, is that 6th gear is still just 1:1 setup. Do you understand(i am being sincere in asking this) what 1:1 means? The reason why the new cruisedrive runs a bit lower rpms in 6th is because of the way the primary is geared(ie: the tooth arrangement between the clutch basket and compensator gear), but its still just 1:1. You could very easily set up a basic 5 speed to run lower rpms in 5th gear than the cruise drive does currently in 6th gear. But neither will have any benefit of being overdriven where the back wheel turns faster than the engine crank(ie: OVERDRIVE).
Your not understanding something here. Nobody is arguing the fact that the cruise drive 6 speed drops engine speed a few hundred rpm lower over the stock 5 speed(or more accurately the way its currently geared)as its currently set up. What the argument is, is that 6th gear is still just 1:1 setup. Do you understand(i am being sincere in asking this) what 1:1 means? The reason why the new cruisedrive runs a bit lower rpms in 6th is because of the way the primary is geared(ie: the tooth arrangement between the clutch basket and compensator gear), but its still just 1:1. You could very easily set up a basic 5 speed to run lower rpms in 5th gear than the cruise drive does currently in 6th gear. But neither will have any benefit of being overdriven where the back wheel turns faster than the engine crank(ie: OVERDRIVE).
[quote]ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
[color=#FF0000]Your complete thick here. The end result is not the same entirely, an overdriven gear has a big advantage over a 1:1 gear. The overdriven gear will provide lower and lower engine rpms as vehicle speed increases. Example: say your 1:1 6th gear and my .89:1 6th gear both turn exactly 3000rpms at 70mph, at 75 mph I will be turning about 3200rpm to your 3400 rpm, at 80mph Ill be turning 3400rpm to your 3700rpm, the higher the
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Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: 6-speed
[quote]ORIGINAL: JamieWG
You are wrong. Unless you can provide names and details, once more, you are rumor mongering.
No, you stated that you "wouldn't want one" and you stated that all the new six-speed did was caused "one extra shift before you reach top speed"..(see quote at bottom of post)
Thats right, I wouldnt want one personally, but thats above and beyond the technical issues, as it stands right now, the product has big ? stamped on it. Again, your not quoting me directly and your taking words and meanings out of context.
Again, you are lying.. your words - "Sorry but helical cut gears are not as strong as straight cut traditional gears. " (see quote at bottom of post)
And again, your not readin or quoting anything in proper context.
I don't have to twist your words. Your words will appear at the bottom of this post.
This is not what you were previously saying. (See quote at bottom of the page)
[color=#33FF33]The bottom quote is correct, the close ratio cruise drive has no OVERDRIVE,
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
http://articles.news.aol.com/busines...23144209990008
I could be wrong there, who knows, but a few employees at HD of Washington stated there were a few remote accidents with some minor injuries......whether there thats true or not, its still a defect that can be dangerous.
http://articles.news.aol.com/busines...23144209990008
I could be wrong there, who knows, but a few employees at HD of Washington stated there were a few remote accidents with some minor injuries......whether there thats true or not, its still a defect that can be dangerous.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
No, I stated that the new transmission has issues yet to be resolved and as they stand now, I also stated that long term durability on the transmission is still in question, and that time will tell how good they really are. You have a habit of taking my words out of context so please quote away, but make sure the quote is COMPLETE and in line with other statements I made in the past
No, I stated that the new transmission has issues yet to be resolved and as they stand now, I also stated that long term durability on the transmission is still in question, and that time will tell how good they really are. You have a habit of taking my words out of context so please quote away, but make sure the quote is COMPLETE and in line with other statements I made in the past
Thats right, I wouldnt want one personally, but thats above and beyond the technical issues, as it stands right now, the product has big ? stamped on it. Again, your not quoting me directly and your taking words and meanings out of context.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
Again out of context, I stated orignally: Straight cut will 'whine' the faster they go but offer 1. More directional application of force allowing for less power loss. and 2. Higher acceptable loads until failure. So in one sense on a tooth per tooth basis straight cut gears are stronger naturally. I also stated in another thread: HD's new "helical cut" gears arent of the same quality as their older straight cut gears. Did you know that? Do some research and tell us your findings of the difference. Second, I already mentioned the fact that helical gears have more teeth in contact at all times, thats not in question, but directional applied force is a big issue, one you probably dont understand and continue to avoid. And thrust load is another big issue and a big downside to helical gears.
Again out of context, I stated orignally: Straight cut will 'whine' the faster they go but offer 1. More directional application of force allowing for less power loss. and 2. Higher acceptable loads until failure. So in one sense on a tooth per tooth basis straight cut gears are stronger naturally. I also stated in another thread: HD's new "helical cut" gears arent of the same quality as their older straight cut gears. Did you know that? Do some research and tell us your findings of the difference. Second, I already mentioned the fact that helical gears have more teeth in contact at all times, thats not in question, but directional applied force is a big issue, one you probably dont understand and continue to avoid. And thrust load is another big issue and a big downside to helical gears.
And again, your not readin or quoting anything in proper context.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
So there are varying angles on the whole "strength" issue, and you have to weigh all the tangibles in a logical fashion. But all your doing Jamie is is taking part of what I said and trying to twist it to your own advantage, and not looking at the issue as a whole in a logical approach.
[/color]
So there are varying angles on the whole "strength" issue, and you have to weigh all the tangibles in a logical fashion. But all your doing Jamie is is taking part of what I said and trying to twist it to your own advantage, and not looking at the issue as a whole in a logical approach.
[/color]
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
Your not understanding something here. Nobody is arguing the fact that the cruise drive 6 speed drops engine speed a few hundred rpm lower over the stock 5 speed(or more accurately the way its currently geared)as its currently set up. What the argument is, is that 6th gear is still just 1:1 setup. Do you understand(i am being sincere in asking this) what 1:1 means? The reason why the new cruisedrive runs a bit lower rpms in 6th is because of the way the primary is geared(ie: the tooth arrangement between the clutch basket and compensator gear), but its still just 1:1. You could very easily set up a basic 5 speed to run lower rpms in 5th gear than the cruise drive does currently in 6th gear. But neither will have any benefit of being overdriven where the back wheel turns faster than the engine crank(ie: OVERDRIVE).
Your not understanding something here. Nobody is arguing the fact that the cruise drive 6 speed drops engine speed a few hundred rpm lower over the stock 5 speed(or more accurately the way its currently geared)as its currently set up. What the argument is, is that 6th gear is still just 1:1 setup. Do you understand(i am being sincere in asking this) what 1:1 means? The reason why the new cruisedrive runs a bit lower rpms in 6th is because of the way the primary is geared(ie: the tooth arrangement between the clutch basket and compensator gear), but its still just 1:1. You could very easily set up a basic 5 speed to run lower rpms in 5th gear than the cruise drive does currently in 6th gear. But neither will have any benefit of being overdriven where the back wheel turns faster than the engine crank(ie: OVERDRIVE).
[color=#33FF33]The bottom quote is correct, the close ratio cruise drive has no OVERDRIVE,
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,034
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RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
...and I think you are very young, very brash, and very unemployed. You've got a great gift for memorizing technical data, but it will never be used to it's full potential unless you grow up. You started out bashing this transmission and saying it was no good, and you've finished up by bashing me for disagreeing with you.
As the transmission stands, it isnt very good right now, thats right, it has many issues that Harley Davidson has directly acknowledged. And for someone who you think is employed, I got alot of toys, and I dont finance em ever. So it must be good being "unemployed"!
...and I think you are very young, very brash, and very unemployed. You've got a great gift for memorizing technical data, but it will never be used to it's full potential unless you grow up. You started out bashing this transmission and saying it was no good, and you've finished up by bashing me for disagreeing with you.
As the transmission stands, it isnt very good right now, thats right, it has many issues that Harley Davidson has directly acknowledged. And for someone who you think is employed, I got alot of toys, and I dont finance em ever. So it must be good being "unemployed"!
https://www.hdforums.com/m_167298/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
I might be wrong, but that doesn't look like a shop to me.
People can read the info we've posted and make their own minds up about gears and transmissions. Good debate. Have a good day.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 916
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RE: 6-speed
Why dont you guys/kids meet somewhere and just beat the livin crap out of each other ....
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Banned
Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: 6-speed
ORIGINAL: JamieWG
A person can be knowledgeable and still be unemployed. You've stated that you are the boss in a "garage", and made other similar comments. I find it interesting that the "boss" of a bike shop would have to work on his own bike inside a house trailer and have enough time to spend all day posting here. That's why I doubt your claims about your employment.. Nothing wrong with house trailers, I've lived in them myself, and nothing wrong with working on a bike in one... just thought it was weird that someone who make the claims you make, has to work on his bike inside his house. Oh yeah.. here is a link to the thread where you posted pics of your bike..
https://www.hdforums.com/m_167298/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
I might be wrong, but that doesn't look like a shop to me.
People can read the info we've posted and make their own minds up about gears and transmissions. Good debate. Have a good day.
ORIGINAL: MegaHDman
...and I think you are very young, very brash, and very unemployed. You've got a great gift for memorizing technical data, but it will never be used to it's full potential unless you grow up. You started out bashing this transmission and saying it was no good, and you've finished up by bashing me for disagreeing with you.
As the transmission stands, it isnt very good right now, thats right, it has many issues that Harley Davidson has directly acknowledged. And for someone who you think is employed, I got alot of toys, and I dont finance em ever. So it must be good being "unemployed"!
...and I think you are very young, very brash, and very unemployed. You've got a great gift for memorizing technical data, but it will never be used to it's full potential unless you grow up. You started out bashing this transmission and saying it was no good, and you've finished up by bashing me for disagreeing with you.
As the transmission stands, it isnt very good right now, thats right, it has many issues that Harley Davidson has directly acknowledged. And for someone who you think is employed, I got alot of toys, and I dont finance em ever. So it must be good being "unemployed"!
https://www.hdforums.com/m_167298/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm
I might be wrong, but that doesn't look like a shop to me.
People can read the info we've posted and make their own minds up about gears and transmissions. Good debate. Have a good day.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 59
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RE: 6-speed
Lester: "Garage" to many in most parts of the continental US,Mexico, and Canada, is another name for "shop","repair center" etc. I did ,not come here to spam out the business I work at.
Thats a mudroom in a 130 yr. old house you idiot. I like to stay warm during the wintertime and my garage isn't heated.
Now you have me very confused here, I thought you said that you call your business a garage as seen in your quote above, but yet you refer to your business as being operated in something other than a garage in another post and that you call your place of employment a garage in your part of the country , then again you work outside in an unheated "garage" according to you, but you bring your bike in the mud room to work on it when you supposedly have a shop, or is it a "garage", or do you know what it is at all because I don't have any idea at all what you are referring to any longer . Which is it now, lets take a stand here somewhere. Is your "shop " a "garage" or is your mud room your "shop" or is your mud room your place of business or do you even have a business at all? Who cares any longer, I think you should find something to do that's more constructive than filling these pages here with your comments and ridicule. You said what you had to say , so move on and get a life other than typing on your computer.
And one other thing while we are on the subject of your bulletproof bike, judging solely from the pictures in the other thread that you posted, to my uneducated eye, I would be willing to bet that the motor in that bike has not been run dispite your comments on how well it runs and with no problems at all.
Ride safe