I'm not really sure as I haven't purchased one yet.
I'm definitely going to try it though. I've done quite a bit of EFI tuning on drag cars with both gas and alcohol so it shouldn't be too bad. The only thing different is with the cars I have to build everything from scratch with a laptop where I believe these give you preset options.
I really don't know that much about the different programmers so do a lot of research before going to get one and I'd say to look for something you feel comfortable with doing yourself.

 

Quick ? haha thast how i started this post ok lets see if i lernd anything lets say i have high flow air &pipes at part throtel in closed loop (cruse) the limiting factor of air flow (buterfly)the ecm can make the changes to cmpensate but at full throtel the ecm can not increse the dwell time to the inj.to comp. for the incresed air flow thus runing very lean .

 

Does anyone know any good books or manuals dealing with the theory of operation of these devices. If I am going to do it I want to understand everything that is going on and not just be tied to numbers fed to me by a second party.

There is no warm and fuzzy from that...

BTW: This forum rocks!! Thank goodness I found it because who know how much time and money I would have wasted based on the bad advice I had gotten thus far.

 

Actually, if the sensors give a false reading then they are useless regardless of how the EFI is programmed. That is not the problem that an upgraded exhaust causes. Just like an improved air cleaner, a well designed exhaust is going to allow the bike to breathe better. More of the burnt gases will escape when that exhaust valve opens and if the valves operate like a car, a good system will create some scavenging. So even the stock air cleaner can deliver a little more air. I think JaimeWG mentioned that before as well.

My EFI knowledge comes primarily from cars so I am learning as well. It seems a bit ridiculous that when operating closed loop, the adjustment range is so narrow although it certainly could be. Another possibility is that the closed loop function IS adjusting adequately, but from what I've read at WOT you are operating open loop so that data comes exclusively from a table.

I don't know that any of the closed loop offsets or adjustments are applied to this table. If not, then the real problem could be the open loop operation at wide open throttle. Closed loop operation could be a problem as well, I don't know that it isn't, but I am pretty confident your system's self-adjustments won't help at WOT.

That could be part of the reason some folks find they need to reprogram and others don't for a stage 1??? Car EFI systems operate open loop at warm up as well as WOT because the sensors are not accurate until a certain temperature range and of course the engine runs dramatically different as well when it's cold. But if you take long, gentle rides with very little wide open moments, you operate mostly closed loop and that is at least adjusted somewhat. If you take short rides and do a lot of blasts of WOT, then you operate more in the open loop mode.

At least when warming up, it should be plenty rich. So perhaps the closed loop mode is truly not very adjustable or perhaps WOT is the bigger issue. I'm not sure it matters much because I think either way, you need to get the EFI reprogrammed with any changes. I haven't decided on my personal solution yet either, but I am leaning towards SERT. That is the *correct* way to handle the problem, it just isn't as easy as some of the others claim their solutions are.

Kevin

 

I didn't mean more time in open loop mode than closed loop mode. I just meant you increase the amount of time you are in open loop mode.
Kevin

 

Jeff

You can look in this forum for some help on the various units.. https://www.hdforums.com/forumid_247/tt.htm

 

hey kpreese me to ithink one thing that i faild to take into cosideration is that most efi sys. today is that they have mss air flow sen. that helps to adj. for high flow intakes & exhaust the hd sys is more like a tbi witch has much less capabilaty to do so

 

These systems have a MAP sensor which is actually quite common in cars as well. The pressure reading in the manifold will still correspond to an air flow rate. After upgrades that relationship will change, but it should still be consistent. So at a given pressure an upgraded bike will be flowing more air, but a closed loop system should recognize it is lean and adjust. Eventually at a given RPM and given MAP reading, it would know how much fuel to deliver. A mass flow meter might be superior (especially for forced induction), but a MAP sensor can do this job fine.

In my previous post I was just saying that the EFI system *should* be able to adjust to handle this in closed loop mode. I don't *know* that it does. My point was that regardless of how well it adjusts in closed loop mode, you will probably still not be getting enough fuel in there at WOT.

These add-on boxes that intercept the signals and tweak them . . . in closed loop mode, the bike will be doing the same thing it always does, targeting a borderline lean condition. So you richen it up and in closed loop mode, it will simply lean it back out. Depending on how much the EFI system can adjust, it will offset the benefits of one of these add-on boxes (in closed loop mode). Even if the bike can't adjust all of the added fuel back out, it still will change the performance after you tune it. So if you tune it, it will go out of tune. That problem is well known in the performance car arena. Because of the inherent problems with these boxes, I haven't followed their "progress". Perhaps these new boxes have some new tricks up their sleeves, but I don't think so. I think the same old problem still exists.

Despite that, I would think an add-on box would be effective at WOT because the system isn't relying on feedback to hit a target. So whatever tweaks you put in place should stay in place.

Anyway, my point was just that you pretty much need to get a reprogram or add some device if you make changes because of open loop function whether closed loop mode adjusts properly or not. But I suspect the SERT is probably the only way to effectively help with both closed loop and open loop function.

Kevin

 

Consedering the 02 sensors in my 06 Streetbob can I use the Bassani pro street pipes. I just got of the phone with the Bassani rep and he's was not sure so he's going to get back to me. Thoughts?

 

yea i know they have maps it just seams to me if they were that sensitive they would have a problum with altatude sey denver ves sea level I think most peolpel dont like the fact they are so lean any way i also have a aircraft background i know any air cooled engin needs to on the rich side (d;a;m epa) it would be nince to have a e.g.t. gage and a littel **** to tweek