EFI to Carb conversion?
Road Master
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 941
Likes: 27
From:
Sure is a lot of miss information in this old thread.
The closed loop fuel injection systems from 06 dynas then everything 07 on adjusts fuel AFR and ignition timing for varied loads, altitudes, fuel grades etc. They use a MAP sensor for air volume and load sensing, They use a temp sensor for air density and cold start/run. they use a barometric pressure sensor for altitude/weather changes, they use O2 sensors for making sure the other calcs are correct and make adjustments in fuel charts for engine wear and small changes. They also utilize ION sensing to act as knock sensing for individual front and rear ignition timing.
Oh and for those thinking those narrow band sensors limit the mods you can do are wrong. Narrow band sensors only adjust in a narrow range of 14:1 to 15:1 with a voltage from .1 to 1 volt, ECU is usualy adjusting pulse rates to get .6 volts roughly 14.7:1 ratio. I have ridden my bike with higher flow injectors, high flow air cleaner and free flowing exhaust after reinstalling the OE ecu for diagnostic purpose and it ran great AND the closed loop system was able to make the adjustments needed. No codes from injectors reading high or low.
Now I am not saying the stock delphi system is the end all greatest efi system but is very very good. And if your after getting out of the 14:4/14:7 ratios in 80% of your riding then you need to go open loop systems or wideband closed loop. OOps edited to add or go carb. I accidentally forgot to add carb as a option since I wouldn't do it.
The closed loop fuel injection systems from 06 dynas then everything 07 on adjusts fuel AFR and ignition timing for varied loads, altitudes, fuel grades etc. They use a MAP sensor for air volume and load sensing, They use a temp sensor for air density and cold start/run. they use a barometric pressure sensor for altitude/weather changes, they use O2 sensors for making sure the other calcs are correct and make adjustments in fuel charts for engine wear and small changes. They also utilize ION sensing to act as knock sensing for individual front and rear ignition timing.
Oh and for those thinking those narrow band sensors limit the mods you can do are wrong. Narrow band sensors only adjust in a narrow range of 14:1 to 15:1 with a voltage from .1 to 1 volt, ECU is usualy adjusting pulse rates to get .6 volts roughly 14.7:1 ratio. I have ridden my bike with higher flow injectors, high flow air cleaner and free flowing exhaust after reinstalling the OE ecu for diagnostic purpose and it ran great AND the closed loop system was able to make the adjustments needed. No codes from injectors reading high or low.
Now I am not saying the stock delphi system is the end all greatest efi system but is very very good. And if your after getting out of the 14:4/14:7 ratios in 80% of your riding then you need to go open loop systems or wideband closed loop. OOps edited to add or go carb. I accidentally forgot to add carb as a option since I wouldn't do it.
Last edited by man4mopar; May 4, 2009 at 09:27 AM.
Novice
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From:
Efi to carb swamp
Was wondering if anyone has converted there ULTRA CLASSIC I have a 97. All change over to carb has been done,down to the gas tank, have the pump removed looking at how the best way to remove the fuel pump lines,do I cut on the inside to remove them or drill from the outside until i get the size I need? I'm sure someone has the best way for this job.THANKS FOR ANY HELP......
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
Was wondering if anyone has converted there ULTRA CLASSIC I have a 97. All change over to carb has been done,down to the gas tank, have the pump removed looking at how the best way to remove the fuel pump lines,do I cut on the inside to remove them or drill from the outside until i get the size I need? I'm sure someone has the best way for this job.THANKS FOR ANY HELP......
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,555
Likes: 3
From: Clarksburg, PA
I can see that a lot of people love the FI.
I liked mine too until my bike started having problems.
2006 Dyna with only 8,800 miles and it's out of warranty. Paid to set it up right in the first place with pipes, ac, PCIII and custom Dyno.
It misses / coughs during start up but doesn't throw a code. Tried changing intake gaskets and simple things like plugs, wires, and a couple electrical parts from my brother's '06, but still has the cough.
I really don't want to tear apart my brother's bike and swap all the electrical parts.
In the long run, after paying for someone to diagnose the problem and replace some electrical parts, I think I'd be close money-wise to what a carb swap would cost.
I liked mine too until my bike started having problems.
2006 Dyna with only 8,800 miles and it's out of warranty. Paid to set it up right in the first place with pipes, ac, PCIII and custom Dyno.
It misses / coughs during start up but doesn't throw a code. Tried changing intake gaskets and simple things like plugs, wires, and a couple electrical parts from my brother's '06, but still has the cough.
I really don't want to tear apart my brother's bike and swap all the electrical parts.
In the long run, after paying for someone to diagnose the problem and replace some electrical parts, I think I'd be close money-wise to what a carb swap would cost.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Likes: 2
From: Norwalk, Ohio
To hell with worrying about warranty, but to screw up a goof fuel injection system, WHY? Gone are the days of screwing with floats, needles, and rolling the throttle endlessly while warming up, and the crappy cold starts.
Yeah the idle when warm was a little slower, and deeper depending on exhaust, but the benefits of fuel injection FAR outweigh that.
Power Commander, Screamin Eagle Race Tuners, or some kind of fuel injection module is all that is needed nowadays. Xeids are for those too cheap to spend $300 on their $20,000 bike to make it run right. Don't get me started on that.
You can interface with a laptop to make on the fly adjustments or tuning, anytime with no real disassembly other than removing a seat or side cover to access the module. Versus tearing out the carb, tank and others and hooking it all back up and seeing how it runs.
Why, oh why would you ever really want to downgrade yourself?
There are plenty of older carbed dyna's out there.
But to each his own, it's your bike, but you'll definetally be cursing the loss of performance, and simplistic reliability FI delivers.
Either a simple map upload or adjustment, versus taking carbs apart, changing needles and floats. What do you think is easier. Not to mention not halfing to feather a choke at various operating temps.
What advantages would you have with a carb? Besides a lighter wallet, and reduced value on your bike, and worse mileage & relibility?
Not throwing insults, but you asked opinions on taking a good fuel injection system and putting a carb in place.
Yeah the idle when warm was a little slower, and deeper depending on exhaust, but the benefits of fuel injection FAR outweigh that.
Power Commander, Screamin Eagle Race Tuners, or some kind of fuel injection module is all that is needed nowadays. Xeids are for those too cheap to spend $300 on their $20,000 bike to make it run right. Don't get me started on that.
You can interface with a laptop to make on the fly adjustments or tuning, anytime with no real disassembly other than removing a seat or side cover to access the module. Versus tearing out the carb, tank and others and hooking it all back up and seeing how it runs.
Why, oh why would you ever really want to downgrade yourself?
There are plenty of older carbed dyna's out there.
But to each his own, it's your bike, but you'll definetally be cursing the loss of performance, and simplistic reliability FI delivers.
Either a simple map upload or adjustment, versus taking carbs apart, changing needles and floats. What do you think is easier. Not to mention not halfing to feather a choke at various operating temps.
What advantages would you have with a carb? Besides a lighter wallet, and reduced value on your bike, and worse mileage & relibility?
Not throwing insults, but you asked opinions on taking a good fuel injection system and putting a carb in place.
Last edited by yoseppi; Aug 11, 2009 at 04:31 AM.
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 409
Likes: 2
From: Norwalk, Ohio
Maybe you have a bad ecm or FI module? Try swapping with someone temporarily?
Try unpluggin it and going stock for a few seconds to test the idle without the PCIII.
It'll be cheaper and less of a headache versus setting up a new intake and the hassle of a carb,
Maybe it just looks daunting, or maybe it is a bigger problem than the fuel injection? Have a good independent have a look at it if you don't want to attempt it.
But working on the bike if more than half to fun!
Try unpluggin it and going stock for a few seconds to test the idle without the PCIII.
It'll be cheaper and less of a headache versus setting up a new intake and the hassle of a carb,
Maybe it just looks daunting, or maybe it is a bigger problem than the fuel injection? Have a good independent have a look at it if you don't want to attempt it.
But working on the bike if more than half to fun!
I can see that a lot of people love the FI.
I liked mine too until my bike started having problems.
2006 Dyna with only 8,800 miles and it's out of warranty. Paid to set it up right in the first place with pipes, ac, PCIII and custom Dyno.
It misses / coughs during start up but doesn't throw a code. Tried changing intake gaskets and simple things like plugs, wires, and a couple electrical parts from my brother's '06, but still has the cough.
I really don't want to tear apart my brother's bike and swap all the electrical parts.
In the long run, after paying for someone to diagnose the problem and replace some electrical parts, I think I'd be close money-wise to what a carb swap would cost.
I liked mine too until my bike started having problems.
2006 Dyna with only 8,800 miles and it's out of warranty. Paid to set it up right in the first place with pipes, ac, PCIII and custom Dyno.
It misses / coughs during start up but doesn't throw a code. Tried changing intake gaskets and simple things like plugs, wires, and a couple electrical parts from my brother's '06, but still has the cough.
I really don't want to tear apart my brother's bike and swap all the electrical parts.
In the long run, after paying for someone to diagnose the problem and replace some electrical parts, I think I'd be close money-wise to what a carb swap would cost.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,555
Likes: 3
From: Clarksburg, PA
Maybe you have a bad ecm or FI module? Try swapping with someone temporarily?
Try unpluggin it and going stock for a few seconds to test the idle without the PCIII.
It'll be cheaper and less of a headache versus setting up a new intake and the hassle of a carb,
Maybe it just looks daunting, or maybe it is a bigger problem than the fuel injection? Have a good independent have a look at it if you don't want to attempt it.
But working on the bike if more than half to fun!
Try unpluggin it and going stock for a few seconds to test the idle without the PCIII.
It'll be cheaper and less of a headache versus setting up a new intake and the hassle of a carb,
Maybe it just looks daunting, or maybe it is a bigger problem than the fuel injection? Have a good independent have a look at it if you don't want to attempt it.
But working on the bike if more than half to fun!
So how expensive do you think it would be for someone to diagnose a hard to find problem? There are plenty of people on this forum who are chasing these types of problems with no luck.
I've disconnected the PCIII.
I've changed maps.
I've reset the throttle position to make sure it'as at 0% when closed.
I've cleaned the IAC and air flow sensor.
I've changed intake gaskets.
I've changed gas and ran FI cleaner through it.
I've wiggled the wiring to see if it's broken.
I've checked the lines in the tank.
AND I still don't know if it's an electrical problem!!
I do have my brother's bike to try parts from, but with HD's use of stupid Torx bolts on all the electrical parts, you almost have to rip the throttle body out just to try them!
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 45
both dealers in my area wanted 3000.00 for a carb swap on my dyna! i said mmm let me
just stay with efi for now. thaey also said they couldent guarantee it would run right.
i thought 3000.00 was steep for just a cv40 carb sawp!!
just stay with efi for now. thaey also said they couldent guarantee it would run right.
i thought 3000.00 was steep for just a cv40 carb sawp!!
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Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
From: Charleston S.C.
I also talked to my local hd about 4 weeks ago when i wrecked my dyna and asked them if my scoot was totaled if you could take the motor and tranny out put a carb on and put it in a roller they said hell yeah.