Tuners
No O2 sensors in the equation, which means you're running off a canned map the entire time...you can make adjustments, but still just a map.
Club Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,483
Likes: 39
From: Passaic County, NJ
One question I've always wondered about fuelmoto is...are the maps they send you the same maps you can download just as easily from the powercommander.com website or do they do tuning there and have a large catalog of maps for various setups and that is what they send you?
I'm just running the canned map from the powercommander.com website and my bike is fine. I also have the SE stage 1 air cleaner and SEII slip-ons.
My suggestion...just buy the pcIII. Maps are on the cd that comes with it. If it not, just download the map that closely matches your setup.
I'm just running the canned map from the powercommander.com website and my bike is fine. I also have the SE stage 1 air cleaner and SEII slip-ons.
My suggestion...just buy the pcIII. Maps are on the cd that comes with it. If it not, just download the map that closely matches your setup.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 10
From: S.E. MO
One question I've always wondered about fuelmoto is...are the maps they send you the same maps you can download just as easily from the powercommander.com website or do they do tuning there and have a large catalog of maps for various setups and that is what they send you?
I'm just running the canned map from the powercommander.com website and my bike is fine. I also have the SE stage 1 air cleaner and SEII slip-ons.
My suggestion...just buy the pcIII. Maps are on the cd that comes with it. If it not, just download the map that closely matches your setup.
I'm just running the canned map from the powercommander.com website and my bike is fine. I also have the SE stage 1 air cleaner and SEII slip-ons.
My suggestion...just buy the pcIII. Maps are on the cd that comes with it. If it not, just download the map that closely matches your setup.
My experience with maps from my quad was they were not the same in most cases. The power commander maps were typically a little richer than maps from Fuel Moto for the same set-up.
Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 12
From: Greene County, MS
This is all great info. I appreciate it. I'm not looking for the cheapest option necessarily. Mainly, the easiest option for right now. I don't want to spend $700-$800 for a tuner. I think I'm stuck between maybe the SE Super Tuner and the PCIII. Sounds like the PCIII would be the simplest option for me right now. I could go with a dyno run later but the canned map should get me close and get a bit more power out of it right?
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
This is all great info. I appreciate it. I'm not looking for the cheapest option necessarily. Mainly, the easiest option for right now. I don't want to spend $700-$800 for a tuner. I think I'm stuck between maybe the SE Super Tuner and the PCIII. Sounds like the PCIII would be the simplest option for me right now. I could go with a dyno run later but the canned map should get me close and get a bit more power out of it right?
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Semper
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,440
Likes: 148
From: Northwest
The stock fuel injection system utilizes oxygen sensors in your exhaust stream to calculate any adjustments to the fuel/air mixture. These are 'narrow band' sensors, and just as the name states only can correct a small amount because of their narrow band. When you start your bike it runs for a small amount of time in open loop, so that the O2 sensors can come up to temperature... yes they also need to be hot to work in their narrow band.
The PCIII system has you unplug or remove your O2 sensors, and I believe they have you plug something else in. (those that have the system can correct me.. thanks!) So it runs "open loop" meaning that there is no feedback.
The Thundertune max w/auto tune uses wide band O2 sensors, meaning they can correct over a wider range. This is why all kinds of mods can be done with this system, and it will correct the fuel/air mixture over a wide range. It's also bloody expensive... unless you plan on doing a lot of mods over time.
So when thinking about "closed loop" and "open loop", closed loop means there is feedback given to the system about it's operation condition. Open loop means you're running like a carburated system, no feedback on the operating status (fuel/air mixture). You're basically running 'best guess'.
Now folks have been running like that for years, and doing just fine. Fuel injection brings better driveability (in most cases, not all) because of the closed loop feedback, which takes into consideration air temp, air mass being passed and the amount of unburned O2 in the exhaust, to make it's adjustments dynamically.
That's kind of a short description of it, hope that helps!
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,579
Likes: 10
From: S.E. MO
Someone correct me if wrong but arent there seperate sensors air temp, density, and etc. The bikes have only had O2 sensors for a few years and they compensated for these thing before they had them. The O2 sensors are more for air flow which dont do enough for major mods since they are not wideband.
I have ran FI quads for awhile and they do not have O2 sensors and also adjust for temp etc. Even with a PC lll installed they would still adjust for temp and altitude.
I know there are different types of FI so just curious.
I have ran FI quads for awhile and they do not have O2 sensors and also adjust for temp etc. Even with a PC lll installed they would still adjust for temp and altitude.
I know there are different types of FI so just curious.
Tourer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Wilmington, NC
Someone correct me if wrong but arent there seperate sensors air temp, density, and etc. The bikes have only had O2 sensors for a few years and they compensated for these thing before they had them. The O2 sensors are more for air flow which dont do enough for major mods since they are not wideband.
I have ran FI quads for awhile and they do not have O2 sensors and also adjust for temp etc. Even with a PC lll installed they would still adjust for temp and altitude.
I know there are different types of FI so just curious.
I have ran FI quads for awhile and they do not have O2 sensors and also adjust for temp etc. Even with a PC lll installed they would still adjust for temp and altitude.
I know there are different types of FI so just curious.
The matter of the narrowband sensors having less detection range is trivial if the system is near its target AFR. The issue is when tables are not tuned to reflect mods that the system itself cannot add fuel trim to make up for the difference.
Yut