ride height / rake question
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
yeah....you are right. It is way short, and I expected to have adverse handling...but said "hell with it, I'm doing it anyway".....all I can tell you is it handles at all speeds GREAT!
There are guys out there that are riding bikes with NEGATIVE trail....that is spooky at slow speeeds....the tire tries to flop to the side when you turn.at at higher speeds onthe highway, it starts weaving back and forth......I've had a bike like this...7 degree raked trees on a stock frame...
....it was fine at 70 mph....at 75 it started getting squirrley. So, you cruise at 70 and enjoy the ride or go 75+ and fight it.
~Joe
There are guys out there that are riding bikes with NEGATIVE trail....that is spooky at slow speeeds....the tire tries to flop to the side when you turn.at at higher speeds onthe highway, it starts weaving back and forth......I've had a bike like this...7 degree raked trees on a stock frame...
....it was fine at 70 mph....at 75 it started getting squirrley. So, you cruise at 70 and enjoy the ride or go 75+ and fight it.~Joe
Last edited by traveler; Apr 14, 2009 at 06:46 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Likes: 3
From: Eastern Massachusetts
The best way to think of it is it's how far back the center of the front tire's contact patch "trails" the spot where a line drawn through the steering head (the place where the forks pivot) would intersect the ground. There's a trade-off between stability (more trail) and handling (less trail.)
The reason for it is that when the wheel is trailing the steering axis, it's actually being pulled along by the bike, not pushed. The further back it sits, the more the wheel wants to stay centered (the classic example is the front wheel on a shopping cart.) With less trail, it's easier to turn the wheel, and thus the bike is more "flickable" in turns. Past a certain point it becomes a chore to keep the wheel centered and at speed the energy can be enough to rip the bars out of your hands in what's called a "tank slapper."
The reason for it is that when the wheel is trailing the steering axis, it's actually being pulled along by the bike, not pushed. The further back it sits, the more the wheel wants to stay centered (the classic example is the front wheel on a shopping cart.) With less trail, it's easier to turn the wheel, and thus the bike is more "flickable" in turns. Past a certain point it becomes a chore to keep the wheel centered and at speed the energy can be enough to rip the bars out of your hands in what's called a "tank slapper."
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Good post. And too much trail makes the bikes handling very "sluggish"...i.e. doesn't want to turn...you have to push/shove the bike around.
I got lucky with my setup. But, I can tell you she really rides sweet!
~Joe
I got lucky with my setup. But, I can tell you she really rides sweet!
~Joe
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 462
Likes: 1
From: n.e. ohio
still have not made up my mind wich way i want to go yet though.I'm only lowering the bike an inch so if i do rake cups no additional lowering kit would be needed up front i guess. But i would like to upgrade the springs for a better ride since i will have it tore apart anyways to do the sliders. im kinda leaning towards just doing a lowering kit for now then when i get then when i get the extra cash do the cups atleast i wont have to tear the forks apart again i could just adjust the spacers to get the ride height right. any special tools need to install the cups?
Damfino pm me a price on those cups maybe i will just do it all at once
Damfino pm me a price on those cups maybe i will just do it all at once
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
The factory neck has the bearing races in the head tube. One you tap those out, the races fit right in. Then, you have to put new races in the cups, and then use new bearings.
Keep in mind, you lower the bike, you lower the kick stand.
J&P sells a 1 inch under kick stand. Either that or you bend the factory one a bit. best way to do that is brace the bike up so it won't fall over, take the kick stand off, and take it to a machine shop, that can put it in a bender/brake and give it jsut a little bit of tweak.
I went with the 1" under from J&P Cycles.
Any more questions, just let me know....good luck!
~Joe
Keep in mind, you lower the bike, you lower the kick stand.
J&P sells a 1 inch under kick stand. Either that or you bend the factory one a bit. best way to do that is brace the bike up so it won't fall over, take the kick stand off, and take it to a machine shop, that can put it in a bender/brake and give it jsut a little bit of tweak.
I went with the 1" under from J&P Cycles.
Any more questions, just let me know....good luck!
~Joe
Last edited by traveler; Apr 14, 2009 at 09:57 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Lyndhurst,Ohio
raked bearing cups
I'm going to use the vulcan 3 degree cups...I'm havin a tough time with the trees being 1.5-2.0" staggered...that would equate to a huge difference by the time you reached the front axle?..no?..pics to show this?..I cant see this happening..to get the front wheel out a inch the diff is nominal I would think..at the trees..
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
Likes: 32
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Stagger?
Look at the pic below. The angle of the forks compared to the angle of the frames head tube.
No worries....it works fine!
~Joe
Look at the pic below. The angle of the forks compared to the angle of the frames head tube.
No worries....it works fine!
~Joe
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
From: Lyndhurst,Ohio
Well...the one guy said he had to take them off cuz it looked terrible....That dont look bad Trav..Thanks...my understanding are cups are more stable than trees...i'll do a calc when I set it up!..theres a 21" wheel and lowered and cups in my future!
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