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brake upgrade?

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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 12:22 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by HBomb74
I believe a lot of people are confused on this topic. Locking your brakes does not mean you have more braking power. This is taught in your MSF basic rider course. If you squeeze the front brake lever fast and hard enough, the front tire will lock up easily because the weight of the bike did not transfer forward fast enough. That's why you are taught to squeeze slowly and increase the pressure gradually to put the weight on the front tire and achieve maximum braking. Everyone I ever witnessed lock up their front brake went down.
If I were you I would take a different course. Obviously, they taught you to fear your front brake instead of teaching you how vitally important it is and how to use it to its maximum.
I dare you to to "squeeze slowly and increase the pressure gradually" when that vehicle suddenly pulls out in front of you.
The reference to locking it up is to know you have all the stopping power that the front tire can handle and not an instruction on what you should do. If you are straight up and down and the front wheel is straight, you can lock up the front tire and not go down.
The best place to learn this is on a dirt bike, in the dirt.
 
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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 01:15 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gdt3
...If you are straight up and down and the front wheel is straight, you can lock up the front tire and not go down.
Sure wish I'd got your advice before wrecking my bike.
 
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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 07:47 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gdt3
If I were you I would take a different course. Obviously, they taught you to fear your front brake instead of teaching you how vitally important it is and how to use it to its maximum.
I dare you to to "squeeze slowly and increase the pressure gradually" when that vehicle suddenly pulls out in front of you.
The reference to locking it up is to know you have all the stopping power that the front tire can handle and not an instruction on what you should do. If you are straight up and down and the front wheel is straight, you can lock up the front tire and not go down.
The best place to learn this is on a dirt bike, in the dirt.
You may wish to go to the track and watch the best in the world ride into corners and get around 25 times without crashing every race.

None lock up their front brakes and you will notice that the braking system uses small rotor/caliper systems in the rear, all of them. If you use the rear brake for anything other than steering than you may develop problems very quickly (I know you did not mention rear calipers). A for real rider goes into a turn and applies his brakes just about the same time he sees God.

None jam on their brakes but apply their brakes somewhat/relatively gradually. Look at Valentino Rossy's bike and forks. The forks are oblong and fluted. Last year Ohlins developed these sliders (gold part) for him that were very stiff in the front and rear but flexed side to side. He was having problems braking as the front wheel kept on crashing into the radiator. If anyone thinks they can decelerate that quickly than please call me as I would like to see that.
 
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Old Aug 16, 2010 | 10:02 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by FastHarley
You may wish to go to the track and watch the best in the world ride into corners and get around 25 times without crashing every race.

None lock up their front brakes and you will notice that the braking system uses small rotor/caliper systems in the rear, all of them. If you use the rear brake for anything other than steering than you may develop problems very quickly (I know you did not mention rear calipers). A for real rider goes into a turn and applies his brakes just about the same time he sees God.

None jam on their brakes but apply their brakes somewhat/relatively gradually. Look at Valentino Rossy's bike and forks. The forks are oblong and fluted. Last year Ohlins developed these sliders (gold part) for him that were very stiff in the front and rear but flexed side to side. He was having problems braking as the front wheel kept on crashing into the radiator. If anyone thinks they can decelerate that quickly than please call me as I would like to see that.
.
Howard. I am a little disappointed because I would expect you, of all people, to read a post correctly. At no time did I say that maximum braking is locking the front wheel up. Nor did I compare a heavy Harley to a GP bike. Yes, I should go to the track and watch Rossi. Again. I just came back from a 4600 mile trip that included the Laguna Seca GP. Yes, they, and I, apply the brake smoothly and gradually any time I, and they, have a PREDICTABLE stopping situation.
Those bikes don't lock up the front wheel because they have enough stopping power and tire traction to put their rear wheel above their front wheel. They can also do 2 wheel drifts at well over 100 mph.
With 2 fingers I could easily brake hard enough to lift the rear wheel of my CBR 1000RR off the ground. With that bike the challenge was to brake as hard as you could without throwing yourself over the bars. That bike had serious brakes and tires and weighed over 200 pounds less than my Wide Glide. A better comparison would be my FJ1200 that weighed only 40 pounds less than my Wide Glide. I could still lift the back wheel off the ground but it took much more effort. My son's Warrior (cruiser) weighs more than my Wide Glide but can actually stop like a bike should.
So let's quit miss-reading my statement about being able to lock up the front wheel as though I am saying that is how you should brake. If I can't lift the back wheel off the ground with my front brake, then the next test is that I can at least lock it up. I don't ever expect to be able to lift the back wheel of my bike off the ground, so the lockup test is all I am left with. I am a seriously experienced rider and am fully capable of braking to the maximum without locking it up, but if the bike is incapable of lockup, then it is not capable of stopping to the maximum ability of the tire. Unless it can lift the back wheel off the ground.
I never mentioned my rear brakes, because I can lock up the rear wheel, if I want to. It is also progressive enough so that I can modulate it so it doesn't lock up. No need for me to waste my money there.
If anybody wishes to ride around with a stopping distance greater than the tires are capable of. Have at it.
I like me and my bike much too much for those potentially painful wishes.
Elginator knows what I am talking about. He can lock up both ends but knows he shouldn't. He doesn't need to spend any money to get the maximum braking from his bike. He already has it. He can spend money on softer tires to get better braking or buy bigger rotors or calipers to get easier braking, or better feel. But if he can already lock up his tires, it doesn't matter how much money he spends, he can't stop quicker with the same tires.
Howard, I love this quote of yours: "A for real rider goes into a turn and applies his brakes just about the same time he sees God".
I may steal it.
Happy braking.
 
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Old Aug 17, 2010 | 05:59 AM
  #35  
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I dare you to to "squeeze slowly and increase the pressure gradually" when that vehicle suddenly pulls out in front of you. (This is only what I referencing to and not panicking and locking up the front brake). I said also about the rear brake as it was part of information and not directed to you as a rebuttal.

What I am saying is never panic and never lock up your brake. My calipers "feel" the constant braking and also just before the lock up. I did not mean or say/write all of the other things you put in your response. You are reading too much into my post. No, I did not mis-read your post, I just did not mean what you thought.


Look at my bikes and tell me about heavy Harley's and breaking. BTW I also have the red FXR down in weight, as much as I could, the only thing missing would be a C/F frame and swing arm. The wheels play a great deal in reduced stopping distance with a reduction in rotating mass. The tires I am using are for long distance but if I wished performance I would put on a set of 9 pound sticky tires but you only get a few thousand miles out of them. They do spin up faster, naturally.

Rossi's bike is quite a bit lighter than 200 pounds under your Wide Glide Dyna.
 
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Old Aug 13, 2011 | 07:47 AM
  #36  
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