How long to "relearn" new pipes?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,946
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From: Colorado Springs, CO
To meet EPA regulations, they had to make it so that sudden throttle release from using alot fo throttle to nothing would not result in excessive unburnt hydrocarbons being emitted. Popping means lean....and the leanness comes from going from a "load condiditon" to a very sudden "no load" condition at RPMs much higher than idle. Revving it up in neutral shouldn't do it....it has to come from being under load and suddenly dropping the load. If it pops in neutral even, then it is REALLY lean.
I'm not an engineer, I simply learned this stuff from my personal experience. My 'Glide was a popper before we added fuel in that portion of the curve. If I'm wrong, fine....but I DO know popping means LEAN.
~Joe
I'm not an engineer, I simply learned this stuff from my personal experience. My 'Glide was a popper before we added fuel in that portion of the curve. If I'm wrong, fine....but I DO know popping means LEAN.
~Joe
Now if you boys can put down those rulers for a minute or two, here's an update from me, the OP: after around 100 miles or so since the pipe change the decel pop seems to have gone completely away.
While I've had enough Harley's to know that noises, symptoms and other behaviors can come and go for some reason, any reason or no reason at all it kinda makes you think maybe that Rush guy a few posts back might have been on the money, huh?
After all, they're in the business...
While I've had enough Harley's to know that noises, symptoms and other behaviors can come and go for some reason, any reason or no reason at all it kinda makes you think maybe that Rush guy a few posts back might have been on the money, huh?
After all, they're in the business...
Ryan
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
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I have had a rich bike pop on decel. I have had a rich bike sputter and back fire on accel. Bottom line when it isn't right; it isn't right, and needs to be addressed.\
I too am curious how much the stock ECM is had to compensate to fix the issue, and if it at the edge of its adjustments. Therefore leaving the bike in a vulnerable state if weather or altitude change.
I too am curious how much the stock ECM is had to compensate to fix the issue, and if it at the edge of its adjustments. Therefore leaving the bike in a vulnerable state if weather or altitude change.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
I have had a rich bike pop on decel. I have had a rich bike sputter and back fire on accel. Bottom line when it isn't right; it isn't right, and needs to be addressed.\
I too am curious how much the stock ECM is had to compensate to fix the issue, and if it at the edge of its adjustments. Therefore leaving the bike in a vulnerable state if weather or altitude change.
I too am curious how much the stock ECM is had to compensate to fix the issue, and if it at the edge of its adjustments. Therefore leaving the bike in a vulnerable state if weather or altitude change.
I would love to see some crisp clear legit documentation from the Harley Davidson company on just what exactly their ECM will or will not do, and what year these alleged changes took place.
Even though some very reputable people have said it adjusts (and it very likely might adjust), I'd really like to know the ins and outs of the newer ECM's.
This has to be a recent upgrade and I would like to know more about it.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
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I don't think you will get that. That information would destroy the aftermarket fuel management companies, and also limit SEPST sales. Don't you think?
Other than the fact that the device is tied to my bike. I would not trade my SEPST for any other tuner on the market. That is just me. I know that I can put whatever I want on my bike, and tune it. It is a good feeling.
Other than the fact that the device is tied to my bike. I would not trade my SEPST for any other tuner on the market. That is just me. I know that I can put whatever I want on my bike, and tune it. It is a good feeling.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
I don't think you will get that. That information would destroy the aftermarket fuel management companies, and also limit SEPST sales. Don't you think?
Other than the fact that the device is tied to my bike. I would not trade my SEPST for any other tuner on the market. That is just me. I know that I can put whatever I want on my bike, and tune it. It is a good feeling.
Other than the fact that the device is tied to my bike. I would not trade my SEPST for any other tuner on the market. That is just me. I know that I can put whatever I want on my bike, and tune it. It is a good feeling.
The fact that HD does not do this, makes me sceptical about the hearsay (no offense meant towards anyone). I want to know where the "experts" got their information about our ecm's learning process, and what year they started "learning and retaining the learned info".
There is no "conspiracy" from the Moco to hide info. If your ecm needs time to relearn, that is critical info for them to put in their book. Period.
Sure the dealers and salesmen might BS you, but the moco is too big for that. Either their ecm's learn, or they don't. There has to be info out there to confirm what they do.
Until someone can post a credible link to info authored by HD about their ecm, this whole thread is a waste of bytes.
Edit: I don't have access to a 2011 service manual. Can someone please look at one and see if there is any info in there related to this? That would surely clear some of the speculation.
Thanks in advance.
.
Last edited by Faast Ed; Nov 3, 2010 at 01:05 PM.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
Faast Ed, I don't mean to bring up a touchy issue, but the AFV does reset, and learn on the Harley ECM. I don't know how long it takes, but from what I can tell by tuning with the Smart Tune, I would think that it would be completed learning for your cruising speeds in about 25 miles or less. That is because you only have to ride in the cell for 5 to 10 seconds for the computer to get enough data to adjust. Again I am no expert, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ( a little humor there ).
I would also like to know, and I am really thinking of making an offer to use an INDY's dyno with a A/F sniffer to trial and error my bike, and also learn to tune better with the SEPST. If I can do this then I could have a great side job, and maybe earn enough to build that custom sporty I always wanted.
And in my travels if I find out the answer. I will definitely let you know, and also let the board know.
I would also like to know, and I am really thinking of making an offer to use an INDY's dyno with a A/F sniffer to trial and error my bike, and also learn to tune better with the SEPST. If I can do this then I could have a great side job, and maybe earn enough to build that custom sporty I always wanted.
And in my travels if I find out the answer. I will definitely let you know, and also let the board know.
Banned
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7,580
Likes: 7
From: The Internet (& Dyer, Indiana)
Faast Ed, I don't mean to bring up a touchy issue, but the AFV does reset, and learn on the Harley ECM. I don't know how long it takes, but from what I can tell by tuning with the Smart Tune, I would think that it would be completed learning for your cruising speeds in about 25 miles or less. That is because you only have to ride in the cell for 5 to 10 seconds for the computer to get enough data to adjust. Again I am no expert, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night ( a little humor there ).
I would also like to know, and I am really thinking of making an offer to use an INDY's dyno with a A/F sniffer to trial and error my bike, and also learn to tune better with the SEPST. If I can do this then I could have a great side job, and maybe earn enough to build that custom sporty I always wanted.
And in my travels if I find out the answer. I will definitely let you know, and also let the board know.
I would also like to know, and I am really thinking of making an offer to use an INDY's dyno with a A/F sniffer to trial and error my bike, and also learn to tune better with the SEPST. If I can do this then I could have a great side job, and maybe earn enough to build that custom sporty I always wanted.
And in my travels if I find out the answer. I will definitely let you know, and also let the board know.
My last bike had a Power Commander and my current bike has a SERT. I liked them both but the SERT by far has a lot more to offer. No doubt the newer stuff would be better yet!
.
Last edited by Faast Ed; Nov 3, 2010 at 02:22 PM.