S&S Video regarding cams
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 971
Likes: 1
From: Chicago/Arlington Heights
I am having this done by a 20 plus yr. HD wrench for $350 with a one day turn around,HQ T/C Cyclone Cam ( $269.90), Compensator-Kit ($224.95), Performance Clutch ($152.95 ),Diaphragm Spring ($26.95 ), EFI Super Tuner-Kit ($413.95 ), Cam Drive Gear Reten ($5.85 ), Cam Plate Support-Kit ($386.95 ), Tappet Lifter ($107.80 ),Quick Install Pushrod ($132.25 ) and Cam Service Gasket Kit ($98.95 ). Then back to the Dealer for the dyno. Parts total $1826.50. I purchased my 2006 FXDBI new in 2006 and only have 8K on the bike,I will post the results when work is completed if you are interested.
Last edited by Prodriverdon; Jan 22, 2012 at 02:14 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,736
Likes: 1,524
From: Coromandel Peninsula New Zealand
Listen. I know the job takes more than an hour, but the cam change did not. Once you got the bike prepped the cam change took an hour.
If you are doing this at home. I'd say a good 3 to 4 hours probably. Loading the bike on the lift, draining the oil, removing exhaust, blah, blah, blah.
The cam change took 1 hour.
.
If you are doing this at home. I'd say a good 3 to 4 hours probably. Loading the bike on the lift, draining the oil, removing exhaust, blah, blah, blah.
The cam change took 1 hour.
.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
It had been repeated over and over again what was said in the post. He brought up rant. I went on to say that the process should take about 3 to 4 hours, but when getting the cam chest case off the job is an hour job. The rest is replacing items that had to be moved out of the way.
I don't feel that my initial post was a rant. More so it was a thanks to S&S for giving a visual, detailed editorial to what dealers and INDYs make you feel takes some magical witchcraft to perform the task.
I apologize if the tone was taken wrong. The post was informative about how many hours he has into his BMW clutch change (not related to cams), and the cost of parts (not related to the time it takes to change out Twin Cam cams.)
It also went on to mention other items such as cost of jobs versus cost of living, and the cruel world we live in. Hence the reason I said "long post to not say much". It has been said, and we all live it. Kinda goes without saying, you know.
I don't feel that my initial post was a rant. More so it was a thanks to S&S for giving a visual, detailed editorial to what dealers and INDYs make you feel takes some magical witchcraft to perform the task.
I apologize if the tone was taken wrong. The post was informative about how many hours he has into his BMW clutch change (not related to cams), and the cost of parts (not related to the time it takes to change out Twin Cam cams.)
It also went on to mention other items such as cost of jobs versus cost of living, and the cruel world we live in. Hence the reason I said "long post to not say much". It has been said, and we all live it. Kinda goes without saying, you know.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 663
Likes: 2
From: ...
Now this guy in the video changed the cams in 57 minutes. Yes, there were some speed up frames where he was removing the bolts, but what makes a dealer think he can charge for six hours? It now seems the cat is out of the bag regarding the process.
To say the cat is out of the bag is an understatement. This is a step-by-step tutorial in video! I plan on taking my smartphone to the dealer Monday to show the video and see their response. I am not looking for new cams by the way. I really would like to see how they justify six hours for the job.[/quote]
Um..because they can and if you don't like it you have the opportunity to go elsewhere.
The cat is out of the bag on what ? That they charge flat rate by what the book says. Well maybe it's news to you.
Let us know what their response is, although I'm sure you won't be happy with it.
[quote=p51bombay;9290337]Flat rate - the book says a job takes X number of hours and that is what the customer is charged whether it takes half that or twice that, it it takes longer then its in the customers benefit if less then the dealer wins, could go either way depending on the job.
There you go. Same as any auto dealer as well.
To say the cat is out of the bag is an understatement. This is a step-by-step tutorial in video! I plan on taking my smartphone to the dealer Monday to show the video and see their response. I am not looking for new cams by the way. I really would like to see how they justify six hours for the job.[/quote]
Um..because they can and if you don't like it you have the opportunity to go elsewhere.
The cat is out of the bag on what ? That they charge flat rate by what the book says. Well maybe it's news to you.
Let us know what their response is, although I'm sure you won't be happy with it.
[quote=p51bombay;9290337]Flat rate - the book says a job takes X number of hours and that is what the customer is charged whether it takes half that or twice that, it it takes longer then its in the customers benefit if less then the dealer wins, could go either way depending on the job.
There you go. Same as any auto dealer as well.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
From: Concord, NC
Cam Swap
http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...ey/Cam%20Swap/
Just started changing cams this weekend. Always been a backyard mechanic. Started off by reviewing every piece of information that I could find. The S&S video is by far the best piece of work on a cam change I've seen. I keep my MacBook beside me the whole time and just review a little of the video and progress on little by little. In a perfect environment as in the video timelines will be shorter. In my garage and working off the ground on some of the segments do slow the process down. For anyone thinking of doing this project if can follow a video, then you can do it. I am presently at the point of shimming the gear on the chain. Harley store is closed today so it will have to wait till Monday, but I'm in no hurry. Here is a few pics of my progress. Props to S&S for the video.
P.S. I followed the video and never took the oil pump off. The manual basically recommends you do this but why? The pump has always functioned properly and having to center it back on the plate is more labor.
Just started changing cams this weekend. Always been a backyard mechanic. Started off by reviewing every piece of information that I could find. The S&S video is by far the best piece of work on a cam change I've seen. I keep my MacBook beside me the whole time and just review a little of the video and progress on little by little. In a perfect environment as in the video timelines will be shorter. In my garage and working off the ground on some of the segments do slow the process down. For anyone thinking of doing this project if can follow a video, then you can do it. I am presently at the point of shimming the gear on the chain. Harley store is closed today so it will have to wait till Monday, but I'm in no hurry. Here is a few pics of my progress. Props to S&S for the video.
P.S. I followed the video and never took the oil pump off. The manual basically recommends you do this but why? The pump has always functioned properly and having to center it back on the plate is more labor.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
I went back and read some of my posts, and they did come off as a jerk. I think I was just kinda hyper about being told ridiculous prices, in my mind, for something that should be more routine in the shops.
I felt like I was being taken advantage of even though I had not went through with the process at the mechanics. Kinda juvenile on my part. Live and learn.
I felt like I was being taken advantage of even though I had not went through with the process at the mechanics. Kinda juvenile on my part. Live and learn.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
Cam change was 57 minutes. If he wasn't talking and describing the process the actual change of cams was 57 minutes.
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 858
Likes: 1
From: Kentucky
[QUOTE=editbrain;9289781]
The cost of new SE cams are $300, SE ADJ Push Rods are $150, Gasket/oil/ect the rest of the cost, and then $600 for a labor, +$300 for a tune.
I just did this by watching the video and looking thru my manual.
Something interesting I want to mention. I spoke to a mechanic at the Harley dealer and told him what I was doing. He gave me some pointers and he actually talked me out of cutting the push rods and installing the adjustable ones.
His reason was that there is less chance for them to back off the adjustment (and he admitted that he has only seen this rarely) but his second reason was it only takes about an additional 30 minutes to remove the rockers (not the boxes) and to remove the push rods and tubes. That also includes the re-install time. I re used the original parts and saved the bucks....glad I did that.
I did not change the actual cams, I was replacing the front and rear tensioners but I had to remove the cams from the motor and from the plate so I did have them completely removed. Maybe the adjustable push rods are needed when you change the lift and duration on the new cams?
Just wondering why folks spend the extra money when it is so easy to not do it....of course unless it is required for the cam change...........in that case....Never Mind
The cost of new SE cams are $300, SE ADJ Push Rods are $150, Gasket/oil/ect the rest of the cost, and then $600 for a labor, +$300 for a tune.
I just did this by watching the video and looking thru my manual.
Something interesting I want to mention. I spoke to a mechanic at the Harley dealer and told him what I was doing. He gave me some pointers and he actually talked me out of cutting the push rods and installing the adjustable ones.
His reason was that there is less chance for them to back off the adjustment (and he admitted that he has only seen this rarely) but his second reason was it only takes about an additional 30 minutes to remove the rockers (not the boxes) and to remove the push rods and tubes. That also includes the re-install time. I re used the original parts and saved the bucks....glad I did that.
I did not change the actual cams, I was replacing the front and rear tensioners but I had to remove the cams from the motor and from the plate so I did have them completely removed. Maybe the adjustable push rods are needed when you change the lift and duration on the new cams?
Just wondering why folks spend the extra money when it is so easy to not do it....of course unless it is required for the cam change...........in that case....Never Mind
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,630
Likes: 17
From: Central FL
Most go with the adjustable so they don't have to remove the fuel tank and rocker arms to get the pushrods out. I agree with your mechanic, I would rather go though the extra steps and use the factory pushrods.
As far as the topic of the original poster, what you need to realize is that shops work on a flat rate book. The time they quote you comes from that book. If a shop were to charge labor by actual times then customers would gripe about how long it takes to do a job because the mechanic would justndragnhis feet in order to get paid more. If a shop is going to be profitable they need mechanics that can do jones faster than the flat rate, this comes with practice. If it takes a mechanics an hout to do a job that pays an hour he either doesn't have experience or will probably be replaced soon by one that is more efficient.
As far as the topic of the original poster, what you need to realize is that shops work on a flat rate book. The time they quote you comes from that book. If a shop were to charge labor by actual times then customers would gripe about how long it takes to do a job because the mechanic would justndragnhis feet in order to get paid more. If a shop is going to be profitable they need mechanics that can do jones faster than the flat rate, this comes with practice. If it takes a mechanics an hout to do a job that pays an hour he either doesn't have experience or will probably be replaced soon by one that is more efficient.