S&S Video regarding cams
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
S&S Video regarding cams
Hey, Everyone.
This might have been covered on the board already, but I wanted to just say what was on my mind.
The dealers say $300/set of cams, $150/pushrods, $70 extras (whatever else), $300 for a tune, and 6 hours labor $95/hr.
That is pretty steep. Around $1300-$1500 for the job.
Now this guy in the video changed the cams in 57 minutes. Yes, there were some speed up frames where he was removing the bolts, but what makes a dealer think he can charge for six hours? It now seems the cat is out of the bag regarding the process.
To say the cat is out of the bag is an understatement. This is a step-by-step tutorial in video! I plan on taking my smartphone to the dealer Monday to show the video and see their response. I am not looking for new cams by the way. I really would like to see how they justify six hours for the job.
This might have been covered on the board already, but I wanted to just say what was on my mind.
The dealers say $300/set of cams, $150/pushrods, $70 extras (whatever else), $300 for a tune, and 6 hours labor $95/hr.
That is pretty steep. Around $1300-$1500 for the job.
Now this guy in the video changed the cams in 57 minutes. Yes, there were some speed up frames where he was removing the bolts, but what makes a dealer think he can charge for six hours? It now seems the cat is out of the bag regarding the process.
To say the cat is out of the bag is an understatement. This is a step-by-step tutorial in video! I plan on taking my smartphone to the dealer Monday to show the video and see their response. I am not looking for new cams by the way. I really would like to see how they justify six hours for the job.
Last edited by editbrain; Jan 21, 2012 at 05:45 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
From: Berkeley, CA
I'm putting Andrews 37's in my bike right now...just replaced the inner bearings this afternoon. There are a couple o' things missing from the video...removing and replacing the exhaust, peg and pedal...pulling the seat of to deal w/ a wad of wires to disconnect O2 sensors that go to a tuner...just some stuff like that. I'm a self-employed carpenter who learns a lesson most every day that things often go faster in my mind.
I've watched the same video, trying to talk my self into doing this my self also. I agree with hboat, it doesn't show the prep work, getting bike on lift, securing it, removing exhaust, removing air cleaner, removing spark plugs, etc and then putting all those things back.
Also the mechanic has to take more care than most of us doing our own work to not scratch the paint/frame, ect. also, the bleed down time for each lifter is 10 mintues, so thats 40 mintues right there... i would think that 3 to maybe 4 hours would be more resonable...
also the prices you quote for parts seam quite low, i was looking at the S&S 551CE cams & the quickie lifter kit and best price i found on the internet was about $550 for all. if the dealer is not using the quickie pushrod set, then they would need to remove the rocker boxes and loosen the rockers, now that could account for the 6 hours of labor.
The thing that concerns me about doing it myself is if i mess up removing the inner cam berrings, and parts fall into the case, then into the shop it goes to split the case, and thats a lot of labor. makes the $600 your dealer quoted you seam cheep.
have you checked with a local Indy to see what they would charge?
Also the mechanic has to take more care than most of us doing our own work to not scratch the paint/frame, ect. also, the bleed down time for each lifter is 10 mintues, so thats 40 mintues right there... i would think that 3 to maybe 4 hours would be more resonable...
also the prices you quote for parts seam quite low, i was looking at the S&S 551CE cams & the quickie lifter kit and best price i found on the internet was about $550 for all. if the dealer is not using the quickie pushrod set, then they would need to remove the rocker boxes and loosen the rockers, now that could account for the 6 hours of labor.
The thing that concerns me about doing it myself is if i mess up removing the inner cam berrings, and parts fall into the case, then into the shop it goes to split the case, and thats a lot of labor. makes the $600 your dealer quoted you seam cheep.
have you checked with a local Indy to see what they would charge?
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
remove and replace the battery and seat = 10 minutes
remove air cleaner and replace = 5 min
remove and replace the exhaust = 1 hour
replace the cams, o-ring, and gasket = 1 hour
None of this adds up to $600 dollars labor
That doesn't add up to 6 hours, and I also don't think you will have a problem unless you do not have the tool he had to remove and install the bearings.
The cost of new SE cams are $300, SE ADJ Push Rods are $150, Gasket/oil/ect the rest of the cost, and then $600 for a labor, +$300 for a tune.
Yeah. I called an INDY, and they said 8 hours labor. I personally want to thank S&S for letting people know they are getting screwed. Makes me want to support S&S.
I do not know what wires you are talking about on a Dyna that would get in the way, or that you would have to remove.
Sorry, Dealer's and INDY's. When it comes time for lifters and cams I think I'll just have to get a couple buddies to go in on the bearing tool with me. I am pretty sure I can do this myself. I have rebuilt several V-Twins from Yamaha, and they seem to be more complicated than these beasts.
If I wanted to change cams I have a set of SE 255 that cost me $125. So I would have to pay for the tool $180 and all other expenses. I think I could do it for $500.00. I have the SE Pro Super Tuner, and some other software to tune the bike. Shouldn't be an issue to get a good tune on the bike. $500.00 is a hell of a lot better than $1500.00.
remove air cleaner and replace = 5 min
remove and replace the exhaust = 1 hour
replace the cams, o-ring, and gasket = 1 hour
None of this adds up to $600 dollars labor
That doesn't add up to 6 hours, and I also don't think you will have a problem unless you do not have the tool he had to remove and install the bearings.
The cost of new SE cams are $300, SE ADJ Push Rods are $150, Gasket/oil/ect the rest of the cost, and then $600 for a labor, +$300 for a tune.
Yeah. I called an INDY, and they said 8 hours labor. I personally want to thank S&S for letting people know they are getting screwed. Makes me want to support S&S.
I do not know what wires you are talking about on a Dyna that would get in the way, or that you would have to remove.
Sorry, Dealer's and INDY's. When it comes time for lifters and cams I think I'll just have to get a couple buddies to go in on the bearing tool with me. I am pretty sure I can do this myself. I have rebuilt several V-Twins from Yamaha, and they seem to be more complicated than these beasts.
If I wanted to change cams I have a set of SE 255 that cost me $125. So I would have to pay for the tool $180 and all other expenses. I think I could do it for $500.00. I have the SE Pro Super Tuner, and some other software to tune the bike. Shouldn't be an issue to get a good tune on the bike. $500.00 is a hell of a lot better than $1500.00.
Last edited by editbrain; Jan 21, 2012 at 08:54 PM.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,900
Likes: 12
Thanks. I'll video the process. Don't plan on changing anything right now. Bike runs good, gets good mileage, and has 26,000 miles on it. If I have ridden it this long, I don't think the bike needs to change to make me happy.
It is ridden in cold, hot, wet, and dry conditions. It has been a good time so far.
It is ridden in cold, hot, wet, and dry conditions. It has been a good time so far.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 66,948
Likes: 4,573
From: TOAK western branch
This thread on cam DIY breaks it down to almost every nut and bolt. Best cam thread on this site! Atrain did an awesome job. He broke it down to all nessesary tool and handy tools and did it carefully in 4 days with tons of pics.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...-write-up.html
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...-write-up.html
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,736
Likes: 1,524
From: Coromandel Peninsula New Zealand
Well guys, I have done TC cams several times and I can assure you that it does not always go according to plan, sometimes its a breeze and sometimes, depending mainly on what exhaust ya got, it can be an absolute mission.
Bear in mind a coupla things....the wrench gets paid by the hour so the dealer wants to make sure they get 95 bucks for every hour he is in the workshop. So from picking up the worksheet, going to the stores to get the parts (they don't just drop from the sky when he starts the job) doing the job, tuning and testing the bike (a dyno tune actually takes quite a while depending on the spec of the motor) then parking the bike up, filing the job sheet and cleaning up his workspace...his dealer will have paid him for around 6 hours.
I run an Indie workshop as a part-time hobby and I am cheaper per hour but I also don't charge for all the bits and pieces of time mentioned above...I am going to start though because a job like that can eat your day up.
Most dealerships are not making huge dollars, makes me mad when people call them "Stealerships" because they don't appreciate how big the overheads are or just how many people it takes to keep a place running so you can go in there and treat the staff like muppets.
I have managed two bike shops and worked as a wrench in a third.....I ran my own full time and trust me....there ain't enough money in it.....you need to love the job so much that its your lifestyle, then you can go run or work in an Indie but even some of them charge like a wounded bull for their services.
If it weren't for H-D dealerships staying solvent you would have more to worry about than whether you want Denim Black or Celestial Silver on your Street Bob.
Bear in mind a coupla things....the wrench gets paid by the hour so the dealer wants to make sure they get 95 bucks for every hour he is in the workshop. So from picking up the worksheet, going to the stores to get the parts (they don't just drop from the sky when he starts the job) doing the job, tuning and testing the bike (a dyno tune actually takes quite a while depending on the spec of the motor) then parking the bike up, filing the job sheet and cleaning up his workspace...his dealer will have paid him for around 6 hours.
I run an Indie workshop as a part-time hobby and I am cheaper per hour but I also don't charge for all the bits and pieces of time mentioned above...I am going to start though because a job like that can eat your day up.
Most dealerships are not making huge dollars, makes me mad when people call them "Stealerships" because they don't appreciate how big the overheads are or just how many people it takes to keep a place running so you can go in there and treat the staff like muppets.
I have managed two bike shops and worked as a wrench in a third.....I ran my own full time and trust me....there ain't enough money in it.....you need to love the job so much that its your lifestyle, then you can go run or work in an Indie but even some of them charge like a wounded bull for their services.
If it weren't for H-D dealerships staying solvent you would have more to worry about than whether you want Denim Black or Celestial Silver on your Street Bob.
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,105
Likes: 16
From: Blaine, WA
Flat rate - the book says a job takes X number of hours and that is what the customer is charged whether it takes half that or twice that, it it takes longer then its in the customers benefit if less then the dealer wins, could go either way depending on the job.
But having watched it a couple of times as well as the one installing the big bore - very doable, I'll do both when I get the time and $$$.
But having watched it a couple of times as well as the one installing the big bore - very doable, I'll do both when I get the time and $$$.