Proof you don't need a tuner
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 379
Likes: 2
From: Connecticut
My PCV was from Fuel Moto, and they DID help me out a bunch when I had it on the bike...great customer service....but for me who's not a "mechanical" type that just rides it is running great! Is it lean? I'm sure...but do I really have to care about that living in the northeast where I'm not riding in 100 deg heat? Does running lean hurt the overall life of the bike??? I'm not sure either...all I know is it runs GREAT, and I don't have a download....oh yeah..and I've put 500 miles on it with the Stage I
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 379
Likes: 2
From: Connecticut
I had a Power Commander on my last bike (FLHRC) and had nothing but problems with it! My local mechanic who has over 25 years of wrenching, building XR 750 race engines etc., told me, and I quote.........."get that piece of **** off your bike!"...........I did........well, I let him do it.........did the simple download, and was a happy camper again! Hate to say this because I know there are a lot of PC users, but I wouldn't have one of those things on my bike EVER again. $350's down the drain, two months of trying to get the thing tuned, dyno runs, three different mechanics from three different dealers, and bike still spit, popped, backfired like crazy. Took it off, dealer remap, and everything ran great. JMHO, but for a simple stage one (slip-ons, airbox) the dealer remap works great. All those SE tuners, PC's, etc. are overkill for a simple stage one, and that's my mechanic's opinion, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 116
From: OKC
American Iron is right, O2 sensors will sense those changes and accomodate for them. In most of their installs, AI will verify with a test usually at an HD center to determine no AF changes. They also put a disclaimer that IF your bike pops, spits, etc. seek mechanical assisstance regarding that.
Buzz runs a good mag, and he doesn't publish bad ****. Too many folks have been bent over the barrel by the stealer regarding upgrades. This is NOT the old style HD fuel & spark system.
Buzz runs a good mag, and he doesn't publish bad ****. Too many folks have been bent over the barrel by the stealer regarding upgrades. This is NOT the old style HD fuel & spark system.
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 663
Likes: 2
From: ...
This is a very interesting thread. I have always read the same thing in AIM. They always make a point to say it. They usually run dyno numbers for the add ons so I assume they would see if the A/F was too lean.
When the dealership does the download are they adding more fuel or just adjusting the rev limit ? If they have to keep things EPA compliant can they even make it run richer than the stock tune ?
I would love to see someone (other than a magazine) run the numbers for exhaust and intake to see if it really does adjust itself. Maybe if you are out for as much power as you can get it's necessary to tune. But what about some who just want better sound and look. Will the stock system adjust itself enough to not kill the engine ?
I'm not trying to start any arguments I would just like to see what the real answer is.
When the dealership does the download are they adding more fuel or just adjusting the rev limit ? If they have to keep things EPA compliant can they even make it run richer than the stock tune ?
I would love to see someone (other than a magazine) run the numbers for exhaust and intake to see if it really does adjust itself. Maybe if you are out for as much power as you can get it's necessary to tune. But what about some who just want better sound and look. Will the stock system adjust itself enough to not kill the engine ?
I'm not trying to start any arguments I would just like to see what the real answer is.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 14
From: Right where I belong!
I think it is going to vary from bike to bike. When I put my pipes on I could definitly tell a difference, a lot of popping and could smell the fuel. When I installed the new a/c I put on a Dobeck TFI tuner and the bike runs perfect. Granite, maybe a download would have balanced everything out without having to get a tuner, but comparing costs, my tuner was only $190, so I dont think its a bad investment...
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 547
Likes: 2
From: Oregon
IMHO, Harley Tech Talk has some of the best info on the web.
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....c,42690.0.html
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
No you don't NEED a tuner with stage one. Yes your bike will still run as lean as it did before and run hot in the summer. You may think your bike runs "perfect" the way it is. But until you have it tuned right, you will never know what you are missing. You will never know how it was meant to run before the EPA got involved. And you will never know how many years you are shaving off the life of your engine by having it run that lean...
Hell, you don't NEED your harley either
Hell, you don't NEED your harley either
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Advanced
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Olympia, Washington
Was told from indy that running lean and hot will take a toll on the motor. Air fuel ratio needs to be changed. Mine runs cooler, sounds better and is so much smoother. Didnt notice how bad as i didnt have anything to compare it to. Difference is night and day. Dyno'd, not a download.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,138
Likes: 26
From: Southern Oregon
I think it is going to vary from bike to bike. When I put my pipes on I could definitly tell a difference, a lot of popping and could smell the fuel. When I installed the new a/c I put on a Dobeck TFI tuner and the bike runs perfect. Granite, maybe a download would have balanced everything out without having to get a tuner, but comparing costs, my tuner was only $190, so I dont think its a bad investment...