Motor problems!! HELP PLEASE!!
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Thanks again and I will need some luck in convincing the dealer that I am right and his chief mechanic was wrong! Anyone else out there that has read about my problem want to chime in? We have determined it is not the coil! Also the throttle body has been cleaned and all gaskets other than the intake o rings have been checked out!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,706
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From: Near Frankenmuth, MI
From comments made on this forum you might get better detail from the factory service manual, but at least you are working with one.
If it seems to fire with some consistency and run for a period of time, but does not stay running odds are the coil is doing it's job.
From reading your information there's a good chance the ignition module is going bad. That's why I suggested for you to test for spark when it dies, BEFORE resetting everything by switching off and back on the ignition which often acts like a reset and allows it to run again for a period of time.
The way I finally traced down a bad ignition by replacing every small part and that lead to the last item ... the ignition module. Then I borrowed a good ignition module from a repair shop and the bike was back to running like new.
I went with an ignition module upgrade to a Crane hi4e which also gives the bike a lot more pep.
About the intake air leak ... often when cold you may have the leak, or when it heats up the leak may be worse to the point the motor can't run because it's sucking air instead of fuel. On a carbed bike often the choke has to be almost closed to make it run with a leaking intake seals. Often the spark plugs show dramatic signs of improper firing with an intake leak.
You test this by having the bike idling and spray the areas of the intake behind the carb. Most just use choke cleaner and use caution to not spray all over the rest of the bike. Choke cleaner sprayed into a leaking intake gets sucked in and stalls the motor. Make sure you test from both sides, and don't get the spray in the carb opening or it will stall and you won't if it's the issue.
All of these items are things to check first. Too many repair by tearing into and adjusting everything and can get the carb and ignition really messed up. Take it in logical steps and know what's wrong before making any dramatic tear downs or adjustments.
Good luck.
If it seems to fire with some consistency and run for a period of time, but does not stay running odds are the coil is doing it's job.
From reading your information there's a good chance the ignition module is going bad. That's why I suggested for you to test for spark when it dies, BEFORE resetting everything by switching off and back on the ignition which often acts like a reset and allows it to run again for a period of time.
The way I finally traced down a bad ignition by replacing every small part and that lead to the last item ... the ignition module. Then I borrowed a good ignition module from a repair shop and the bike was back to running like new.
I went with an ignition module upgrade to a Crane hi4e which also gives the bike a lot more pep.
About the intake air leak ... often when cold you may have the leak, or when it heats up the leak may be worse to the point the motor can't run because it's sucking air instead of fuel. On a carbed bike often the choke has to be almost closed to make it run with a leaking intake seals. Often the spark plugs show dramatic signs of improper firing with an intake leak.
You test this by having the bike idling and spray the areas of the intake behind the carb. Most just use choke cleaner and use caution to not spray all over the rest of the bike. Choke cleaner sprayed into a leaking intake gets sucked in and stalls the motor. Make sure you test from both sides, and don't get the spray in the carb opening or it will stall and you won't if it's the issue.
All of these items are things to check first. Too many repair by tearing into and adjusting everything and can get the carb and ignition really messed up. Take it in logical steps and know what's wrong before making any dramatic tear downs or adjustments.
Good luck.
Last edited by JohnnyC; Dec 26, 2012 at 12:17 PM.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
So far this is what I have done, checked coil, coil OK, checked for air leaks, test OK, checked the spark plug wires, wires OK, changed spark plugs, stealer installed new crank trigger, wonder if the other was OK too, stealer cleaned all connections ( or so I am told) and greased all connectors, checked and cleaned battery terminals, checked engine temp sensor today, tested OK, and now I am at the point of purchasing an ignition module! Motor seems to only act up after riding for a short ride say 45 miles or so. Before it really starts acting up, I notice a slight hesitation that gradually gets worse as you ride further! Hesitation acts like a slight miss but only when throttle is brought up slightly as when taking off and not at a high RPM run! The hesitation or spitting starts getting worse so much so that when it is to the point of being predictable, then the really bad part comes on and at that point the motor won't run at all while trying to advance the throttle and the back firing begins to a point of a total shutdown by Me! Although the last time it did it, I stopped on the side of he road, clutch in, idling, and when I took off, it ran great all the way home which was only about 2 miles! Now that's pretty much the situation I'm in and as you can see, I am at need of any and all advice!
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Here is something that might be of some help, when I crank the bike it idles high just like it should, but when I movie the bike from the kickstand to straight up, it idles down to the point where it is ready to run and it does this almost as soon as I can crank it and stand it up not giving it much time to warm. Is this the way it is supposed to act or is that an indication of part of my problem?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,706
Likes: 14
From: Near Frankenmuth, MI
After rereading the list I think we may have overlooked the throttle device called the throttle position sensor. I don't have one but have read about others needing to clean this and from what I understand it's simple to remove / release and inspect and clean.
This post may help: Dealer stumped
This post may help: Dealer stumped
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 185
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Johnny you spoke of Limp Mode and how it is a mode for when the bike heats up. My question to you or anyone else, how does limp mode act when your bike is in that condition? Does it sputter the engine to alert the rider or what. On outboard motors that I worked on for 12 years, the limp mode comes on at the onset of an overheating situation and stays at a lower idle till either the engine cools down or the operator shuts it down to determine the problem. If the harley program acts like this then I could very well have an overheat situation or a bad sensor, but I wouldn't think tat it would start backfiring when trying to throttle up! Any thoughts on this?
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Looked at the " dealer stumped" post and it sounds a little bit like mine, but he has some problems that don't exist in mine! Mine will idle but won't throttle up or at speed when it really starts acting up, you can't throttle up and have to keep downshifting until it won't go any further. Keep in mind that at this point, I can cut it off, or just idle as I did a day or so ago and it will run great for about another 3 miles or so before starting the signs of spitting, hesitating, and a complete loss of power till I idle! It really acts like an ignition module and I wish I had someone that I knew that would let me borrow one and try it for at least 3 rides so I could be absolutely sure that the problem was fixed. Although if its not the module, the problem will start almost immediately after I start riding? Wish I had a parts house right now! When I was building Street Rods, I kept a room full of parts to keep all my rides going as well as friends cars!
Last edited by Cruzn34; Dec 26, 2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2012
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From: American by Birth, SOUTHERN by the Grace of GOD!
Man I have been getting some real good advice here and I really appreciate the input!
The last time I rode my bike, the outside air temp was 68 degrees and it started acting up! Now I called a friend with a trailer and the bike would crank, idle, and even try to go, but it wouldn't even make it up the ramp on the trailer! Now after a short hop to the harley shop, say about 15 minutes, I unloaded the bike, cranked it and it ran great even after they had it a day and test drove it ( in 56 degree weather) the bike ran great. I drove it home in 57 degree weather about 20 miles, and it ran great! Now I'm not saying that the outside temp is the problem, but when I rode it again on Xmas eve in 68 degree weather, it ran great for about 45 miles and started acting up! Now I know I am throwing a lot of info out there, but I am trying to simulate the riding conditions and problem I am having as close to accurate as I can get! My hope is that someone out there will read this and remember someone or maybe that person can relate to having the exact same problem and can lend some advice toward this fix! Thanks to all so far for the response and very good advice!
The last time I rode my bike, the outside air temp was 68 degrees and it started acting up! Now I called a friend with a trailer and the bike would crank, idle, and even try to go, but it wouldn't even make it up the ramp on the trailer! Now after a short hop to the harley shop, say about 15 minutes, I unloaded the bike, cranked it and it ran great even after they had it a day and test drove it ( in 56 degree weather) the bike ran great. I drove it home in 57 degree weather about 20 miles, and it ran great! Now I'm not saying that the outside temp is the problem, but when I rode it again on Xmas eve in 68 degree weather, it ran great for about 45 miles and started acting up! Now I know I am throwing a lot of info out there, but I am trying to simulate the riding conditions and problem I am having as close to accurate as I can get! My hope is that someone out there will read this and remember someone or maybe that person can relate to having the exact same problem and can lend some advice toward this fix! Thanks to all so far for the response and very good advice!
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
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From: Indiana, USA
Agreed, spitting out the air cleaner or carb is a sign of a lean air fuel ratio (AFR) or mixture. High idle comes from a lean AFR, and missing is a result of running out of gas, getting gas and running out again. And if you park for a minute and ride really easy, it may take some time before the bowl get dry again. Sounds like your filter is just letting enough fuel through to ride in town but not enough for the highway. Change the filter in the tank and try some Seafoam in the first or next tank to clean the fuel system.