Piston Weights
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 1,805
Likes: 487
From: So fla
maybe it's the camera angle but it sure looks like the bigger valve relief is faceing the exhaust ? Maybe just an illusion.
or it should be the front piston?
or it should be the front piston?
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 626
Likes: 516
From: Mo
Actually both valve reliefs are the same size which surprised me.. The arrow is pointing forward which is correct.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 626
Likes: 516
From: Mo
Bike is back on the lift... The only way to prove this mess one way or the other is to pull a cylinder. Im sick right now, all that work for nothing...Did we decide for sure how much a 2013 103 touring piston, rings, pin and circlips should weigh? Is it 535? Thanks guys for your help.
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 626
Likes: 516
From: Mo
They are Wiseco, they were in Wiseco box and each piston in a Wiseco bag...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
Bike is back on the lift... The only way to prove this mess one way or the other is to pull a cylinder. Im sick right now, all that work for nothing...Did we decide for sure how much a 2013 103 touring piston, rings, pin and circlips should weigh? Is it 535? Thanks guys for your help.
II
Last edited by 60Gunner; Apr 12, 2022 at 05:57 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
That would be more of a problem if that's combined weight. Means they're heavier. Heavier is worse than lighter according to wiseco.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,925
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
Yeah they look like wiseco trackers but the interesting thing is that the domes don't have straight sides. The ones in the pic have curved domes. Branch used to dome the combustion chamber similar.
This piston is a later Wiseco Tracker but it's for a 4 1/8 bore 107.
BTW. Wiseco typically cuts the valve reliefs for a 2 inch valve (about 1.06 radius) so that the pistons can be used front and rear.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,925
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
Go to 8:10 and look at the head. Pistons look to be meant to a head like the one in the video..
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: san antonio
The vibration issue the OP describes is exactly what I experienced when I rebuilt an Axtell top end and replaced the JE pistons with CPs. The rpm range was a little different but the tell, for me, is the fact that the vibration occurs in the same range under acceleration and deceleration and the bike was not rideable. I guess we won't know the actual piston weight unless the OP pulls one and weighs it since we cannot be certain of origination.
The crank was balanced by Darkhorse (for my all boer 107) so when I first encountered the problem, I contacted John Dahmer. After discussing the issue, we came to the conclusion that piston weight, partiularly if lighter, could be the source of the vibration. I had been through two top end rebuilds of the Axtell kit and had both sets of JE pistons on the shelf. We miked the .010" OS set and they checked out to be serviceable with some mild scuffing. Measured everything and while fit was on the loose side for forged, I put it back together and you couldl hardly see that A motor move.
Don't know about Wiseco but CP pins are .150" wall and weigh 160g and CP offers a .230" wall pin the is 45g heavier. Before I tore my 95" motor down and found runout had grown from .0025" to .0045" I was not anticipating a crank issue and had weighed the SE cast flat top 3.875" pistons to compare to the CP 6cc domed pistons I had bought. I found the CPs to be about 50g lighter. Since John and I had come to the condlusion that a 10% lighter piston could cause a vibration and the crank was at "factory balance", I decided to get the CPs as close as I could to the SE cast flat tops. I had CP send me the .230" wall pins and I was within .5gs of the SE cast flat tops. Of course, the crank had to be worked so that motor is very smooth runnng as well.
Not betting the farm that piston weight is causing the OPs heartache but sure leaning that way.
The crank was balanced by Darkhorse (for my all boer 107) so when I first encountered the problem, I contacted John Dahmer. After discussing the issue, we came to the conclusion that piston weight, partiularly if lighter, could be the source of the vibration. I had been through two top end rebuilds of the Axtell kit and had both sets of JE pistons on the shelf. We miked the .010" OS set and they checked out to be serviceable with some mild scuffing. Measured everything and while fit was on the loose side for forged, I put it back together and you couldl hardly see that A motor move.
Don't know about Wiseco but CP pins are .150" wall and weigh 160g and CP offers a .230" wall pin the is 45g heavier. Before I tore my 95" motor down and found runout had grown from .0025" to .0045" I was not anticipating a crank issue and had weighed the SE cast flat top 3.875" pistons to compare to the CP 6cc domed pistons I had bought. I found the CPs to be about 50g lighter. Since John and I had come to the condlusion that a 10% lighter piston could cause a vibration and the crank was at "factory balance", I decided to get the CPs as close as I could to the SE cast flat tops. I had CP send me the .230" wall pins and I was within .5gs of the SE cast flat tops. Of course, the crank had to be worked so that motor is very smooth runnng as well.
Not betting the farm that piston weight is causing the OPs heartache but sure leaning that way.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,359
Likes: 1,219
From: Dubuque, IA
I did a 107 BB on my 2013 Electra Glide over the winter and once I started riding it, I noticed a vibration. So far I have replaced about every rubber part on it. Made sure the exhaust/mufflers were not hitting anything, replaced the rubber muffler mounts and made sure that the mufflers were aligned perfectly so they didn't bind in the rubber mounts. I even replaced the front motor mount rubbers. I also tried a couple of different tunes that had slightly different timing curves. Both tunes were Auto Tuned as I have the PV with Target Tune. I installed a new Screaming Eagle compensator, which made no change. I rode the bike yesterday for a couple of hundred miles and it was miserable... The floorboards vibrate badly and the hiway pegs on the crash bar vibrate way more than they ever did. I can pull in the clutch at speed and the vibration goes away. I can rev up the engine in neutral and get the same vibration. It's definitely in the engine. The bike was fine last year and I have owned the bike since new. Right now other than a short ride, it is basically un-rideable. When I built the engine this winter, I checked the runout on the crank the pinion side was .0015. So my question what is the weight of a stock 103 piston, rings, pin, circlips compared to a Wiseco 10.5:1 piston? Just trying to figure out my next step....
The vibration issue the OP describes is exactly what I experienced when I rebuilt an Axtell top end and replaced the JE pistons with CPs. The rpm range was a little different but the tell, for me, is the fact that the vibration occurs in the same range under acceleration and deceleration and the bike was not rideable. I guess we won't know the actual piston weight unless the OP pulls one and weighs it since we cannot be certain of origination.
The crank was balanced by Darkhorse (for my all boer 107) so when I first encountered the problem, I contacted John Dahmer. After discussing the issue, we came to the conclusion that piston weight, partiularly if lighter, could be the source of the vibration. I had been through two top end rebuilds of the Axtell kit and had both sets of JE pistons on the shelf. We miked the .010" OS set and they checked out to be serviceable with some mild scuffing. Measured everything and while fit was on the loose side for forged, I put it back together and you couldl hardly see that A motor move.
Don't know about Wiseco but CP pins are .150" wall and weigh 160g and CP offers a .230" wall pin the is 45g heavier. Before I tore my 95" motor down and found runout had grown from .0025" to .0045" I was not anticipating a crank issue and had weighed the SE cast flat top 3.875" pistons to compare to the CP 6cc domed pistons I had bought. I found the CPs to be about 50g lighter. Since John and I had come to the condlusion that a 10% lighter piston could cause a vibration and the crank was at "factory balance", I decided to get the CPs as close as I could to the SE cast flat tops. I had CP send me the .230" wall pins and I was within .5gs of the SE cast flat tops. Of course, the crank had to be worked so that motor is very smooth runnng as well.
Not betting the farm that piston weight is causing the OPs heartache but sure leaning that way.
The crank was balanced by Darkhorse (for my all boer 107) so when I first encountered the problem, I contacted John Dahmer. After discussing the issue, we came to the conclusion that piston weight, partiularly if lighter, could be the source of the vibration. I had been through two top end rebuilds of the Axtell kit and had both sets of JE pistons on the shelf. We miked the .010" OS set and they checked out to be serviceable with some mild scuffing. Measured everything and while fit was on the loose side for forged, I put it back together and you couldl hardly see that A motor move.
Don't know about Wiseco but CP pins are .150" wall and weigh 160g and CP offers a .230" wall pin the is 45g heavier. Before I tore my 95" motor down and found runout had grown from .0025" to .0045" I was not anticipating a crank issue and had weighed the SE cast flat top 3.875" pistons to compare to the CP 6cc domed pistons I had bought. I found the CPs to be about 50g lighter. Since John and I had come to the condlusion that a 10% lighter piston could cause a vibration and the crank was at "factory balance", I decided to get the CPs as close as I could to the SE cast flat tops. I had CP send me the .230" wall pins and I was within .5gs of the SE cast flat tops. Of course, the crank had to be worked so that motor is very smooth runnng as well.
Not betting the farm that piston weight is causing the OPs heartache but sure leaning that way.
Be interesting to see what he comes up with when he pulls this.