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'04 Deuce swingarm on a '91 Fatboy

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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 08:44 AM
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Default '04 Deuce swingarm on a '91 Fatboy

For everyone that thinks you can bolt up a 2000-2006 swingarm (non 200mm softail) to an EVO softail.
I started a project hoping to put a deuce 17"x5" rim and a 160mm or 170mm tire on my '91 fatboy.
I got a 20mm rear pulley, had the mounting surface machined down, bolted it up to the deuce rim, spaced out the axle, put the 20mm belt on and there was no way it was going to work.
At this point, after reading many threads on the subject I thought I could pick up the 1/4"-1/2" clearance I needed by bolting on the later swingarm, which according to some would "bolt right up" using the earlier pivot shaft, wrong.
The early pivot shaft uses two end bolts that screw into the center shaft piece, the swingarm pivots ride snugly on the bolts, the later swingarm has a single shaft with bushings that go through the pivots and the frame, a completely different set-up.
For those that said they did it and it bolted right up using the older bolts/shaft, if you did, you had way to much slop/play on your pivots and there is no way that set-up could function without the entire back end rattling around.
The best/simplest way that I saw to do this was to widen the frame holes out to receive the bushings. First I ran a 20mm bit through the holes to get them close (I needed 20.56mm for the bushings) then I took 7/8" flex hones (It will take more than one) honed, test fitted, honed, test fitted etc.. etc.. etc. til I got a good snug fit (who knows if my alignment is off a little if it will cause some problems in the swingarm and shock function though).
The way I did this is fly-by-nightish and I am still wondering if I am going to have to offset the tranny/primary a little to make it work.
I don't understand all the threads I read that said this was a bolt on situation. From what I have experienced to get a deuce rim on an EVO frame is anything but bolt on and when someone says they did it and are still running the 1-1/2" belt I just scratch my head. On the stock EVO set-up on the caliper side there is zero room for adjustment, that means all the modification has to happen on the pulley side and switching to a 20mm belt and machining down the pulley still wasn't enough in my case.
I am enjoying this project and am committed to seeing it through but my advise to everyone is take what you read on these forums with a huge grain of salt.
 

Last edited by JD-EX0311; Dec 29, 2017 at 08:52 AM.
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 09:52 AM
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I have a Deuce wheel in my 1990 Glide, with a later swingarm. The wheel is actually 4.5" wide and I use a 160/70 Avon Storm tyre. No way will a 1 1/2" wide belt fit, in fact not even with a 150 tyre. I have a 1 1/8" belt, initially using a touring length pulley, but with a 30T front pulley I now have a shorter Sportster belt of the same width.

Never having owned a softail I can't follow all of your efforts, but the wheel and tranny pulley should be fine, using a narrow belt. I have 3/16" tyre/belt clearance with my set-up.
 
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 10:17 AM
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I don't know that any information you get doing mods to the drive line of that dresser can be used on a softail. I did go out and measure the rim and it is just a hair over 5.25" from edge to edge. And I thought while I was at it I'd measure the width and much to my surprise its 18". So, thanks to your post, I finally measured the rim and I now know that nothing works as I thought it should because I didn't have the part I thought I did and I am totally dumbfounded at my lack of intelligence...... No wonder it didn't fit. I guess now I have to rethink my whole strategy. This just keeps getting better and better.....
 
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 12:02 PM
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I just checked again and the rim is marked 17x4.5.
This is confusing. I would assume when measuring rim widths and sizes that the measurements would be taken from edge to edge. If that was true then the rim is 18" in diameter and 5.25" wide.
But that is not the case, the spot at the base of the outside edge of the bead is where both measurements are obtained and in this case that would give a 17" diameter and 4.5" width. I guess that makes sense...
 
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 05:11 PM
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The relationship between the rear wheel and transmission is the same on all the big twins from any era, such as your softail and my Glide, regardless of frame. So the drive pulleys are in the same space, relative to each other, the only things that can mess things up are the differences in the swingarm IMHO.
 
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 06:10 PM
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Are you going to use the original fender?

Look at it this way. The original setup at 1.5" belt and a 130 tire left a 5/16 gap when aligned properly. so 5/16" is 8mm. So now by going to a 20 mm belt and your original 1.5" is 38 mm that would be an 18mm gain plus the 8 mm (5/16" original gap) which brings you to 26 mm ad that to the 130 tire and now your up to just over a 150 tire which by the way is all your OEM fender can handle. So if you want to go to a 160 or 170 tire you would have to shim the trans pulley out to clear the tire. so a 170 - 156 leaves you a difference of 14 mm which you would divide by 2 to get the amount needed to shim the pulley to barely clear the tire. 7mm. So you would have to shim the pulley 5/16" for a 170 to work. What you need to do now is measure how much gap you have from the outer edge of the pulley to the inner primary this is the key to the maximum tire width. If you can go 3/16" you can fit a 160 but you still have the issue with fender clearance. I'm sure your late model swing will not be an issue with belt rub and you can always space the pulley or mill the rim... which ever way you need to fit rim and pulley.. Does this make sense?
 

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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 10:29 PM
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I put a deuce wheel on my mid 90's softail with the stock swing arm..I just used a 20 mm belt an a deuce wheel an a 170 tire. I flipped the fender bolts around an put chrome acorn nuts on the fender struts. I think the one thing that would have helped would have been a rear brake caliper that bolts on the mount. To get it all together I had to start the axle going through the wheel an caliper mount then slide the rotor in then push the axle the rest of the way through then bolt it all up.


 
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Old Dec 29, 2017 | 10:30 PM
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I had a box of old spacers a friend gave me to go through to find the right ones an I had to space the pulley away from the wheel to get the belt to clear the tire.
 
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Old Dec 30, 2017 | 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JD-EX0311
I just checked again and the rim is marked 17x4.5.
This is confusing. I would assume when measuring rim widths and sizes that the measurements would be taken from edge to edge. If that was true then the rim is 18" in diameter and 5.25" wide.
But that is not the case, the spot at the base of the outside edge of the bead is where both measurements are obtained and in this case that would give a 17" diameter and 4.5" width. I guess that makes sense...
A standard rim size is measured where the bead of the tyre sits, in other words at the bottom of the seat for diameter and the width is inside the rim flanges. So you are quite right - and don't be confused!
 
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Old Dec 30, 2017 | 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by 98hotrodfatboy
Are you going to use the original fender?

Look at it this way. The original setup at 1.5" belt and a 130 tire left a 5/16 gap when aligned properly. so 5/16" is 8mm. So now by going to a 20 mm belt and your original 1.5" is 38 mm that would be an 18mm gain plus the 8 mm (5/16" original gap) which brings you to 26 mm ad that to the 130 tire and now your up to just over a 150 tire which by the way is all your OEM fender can handle. So if you want to go to a 160 or 170 tire you would have to shim the trans pulley out to clear the tire. so a 170 - 156 leaves you a difference of 14 mm which you would divide by 2 to get the amount needed to shim the pulley to barely clear the tire. 7mm. So you would have to shim the pulley 5/16" for a 170 to work. What you need to do now is measure how much gap you have from the outer edge of the pulley to the inner primary this is the key to the maximum tire width. If you can go 3/16" you can fit a 160 but you still have the issue with fender clearance. I'm sure your late model swing will not be an issue with belt rub and you can always space the pulley or mill the rim... which ever way you need to fit rim and pulley.. Does this make sense?
What I found is that the narrower pulleys are pre-spaced, so I didn't need to use any shims. In any event there is only minimal clearance with the swingarm, so hardly any room to use one. It will be no surprise that a 1 1/2" pulley won't allow the belt to clear the tyre, however the 1 1/8" pulley I used does, although not by a great deal. I have previously used a 140 tyre with the wide belt and got a similar tyre/belt clearance, so am happy with what I ended up with.

In essence, the outside edge of the narrower belt is in the same location as for the wide belt. All the gain from using a narrower belt comes with extra tyre/belt clearance. Using a genuine Deuce pulley will give even more clearance than my touring pulley, as the belt is narrower still.

I have used a stock touring fender, which on my bike is dead centre, I'm pleased to report. My 160 tyre only allows my small little finger to squeeze between it and the fender, so it is darned close. I wouldn't attempt to get a 170 in. Having said that my 160 Avon Storm tyre measures 167mm wide, on the rim and inflated.

When commenting on my rear wheel/tyre combo I routinely make the point that it is not a bolt-in, to discourage members from thinking it is an easy mod. I have a raft of mods on my bike that helped me install the Deuce wheel, although it could be said that everything bolted in, but I did have a lot of luck along the way!
 
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