Crane Cam timing & ignition systems
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From: Vancouver, WA
Crane Cam timing & ignition systems
I pulled my engine ('90 FLSTF) to repair the case and when I pulled the cam gear cover, the cam came out and dropped onto my bench. This was the moment that I realized the previous owner had installed an indexable crane cam (PN: 7-0001B). Since I wasn't able to discern whether the previous owner had it set to "A", "R", or "0"; I installed it at "0". When I put the bike back together I installed some Vance Hines shotgun pipes, rebuilt the carb, and set the timing per the book. She's been running fairly good, but I've been chasing a rich idle, swapping out jets, etc.. It sounds like I may need to retard my timing a bit. Should I pull the cam and set it to "R", or can I just adjust the timing until my ground strap says I'm good? Both? What about aftermarket ignitions?
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From: la la land jerzey
you don't just swap locations to advance or retard the cam - the gear is repositioned then you have a different spot to set the cam
your crane ignition is going away - that is what they do when they are going to fail - makes the motor flat and even the crane coil will do that
your crane ignition is going away - that is what they do when they are going to fail - makes the motor flat and even the crane coil will do that
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Novice
Joined: Aug 2018
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From: Vancouver, WA
you don't just swap locations to advance or retard the cam - the gear is repositioned then you have a different spot to set the cam
your crane ignition is going away - that is what they do when they are going to fail - makes the motor flat and even the crane coil will do that
your crane ignition is going away - that is what they do when they are going to fail - makes the motor flat and even the crane coil will do that
Dirt don't hurt
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Haslet Texas
I pulled my engine ('90 FLSTF) to repair the case and when I pulled the cam gear cover, the cam came out and dropped onto my bench. This was the moment that I realized the previous owner had installed an indexable crane cam (PN: 7-0001B). Since I wasn't able to discern whether the previous owner had it set to "A", "R", or "0"; I installed it at "0". When I put the bike back together I installed some Vance Hines shotgun pipes, rebuilt the carb, and set the timing per the book. She's been running fairly good, but I've been chasing a rich idle, swapping out jets, etc.. It sounds like I may need to retard my timing a bit. Should I pull the cam and set it to "R", or can I just adjust the timing until my ground strap says I'm good? Both? What about aftermarket ignitions?
Personally I think you ought to pull that crane cam and install either a EV-13 or 27 and get a Dynatek 2000 (either i or p) ignition for that bike
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From: Ohio
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/d...ll_evo_cam.pdf
Have no idea what the specifications are on that cam, if you set the cam on the A basically moves the valve intake timing to the left and the power comes in earlier but falls off, put it on the R and power goes to the higher rpm's. To answer your question the cam timing isn't the problem, you should not need to move a cam timing to get basic power in a Evo. Changing the cam timing is only to move the whole power band, not as a tuning supplement.
Low jet should be a 45, what is the symptoms for a rich idle? It is almost impossible to read plugs off today's gas like years ago. Best bet is to leave the cam where it is and find out what the base problem is. Does the mixture screw change anything? Recheck your base timing setting, John mentioned the Crane ignition module tendency, you can use a timing light on your flywheel mark and see it the module is advancing when a rpm change is present, your line will move in the window, if it doesn't move the module is toast.
Have no idea what the specifications are on that cam, if you set the cam on the A basically moves the valve intake timing to the left and the power comes in earlier but falls off, put it on the R and power goes to the higher rpm's. To answer your question the cam timing isn't the problem, you should not need to move a cam timing to get basic power in a Evo. Changing the cam timing is only to move the whole power band, not as a tuning supplement.
Low jet should be a 45, what is the symptoms for a rich idle? It is almost impossible to read plugs off today's gas like years ago. Best bet is to leave the cam where it is and find out what the base problem is. Does the mixture screw change anything? Recheck your base timing setting, John mentioned the Crane ignition module tendency, you can use a timing light on your flywheel mark and see it the module is advancing when a rpm change is present, your line will move in the window, if it doesn't move the module is toast.
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From: Ohio
Just read your thread in the carb section and you have been chasing tuning this carb for a month, some good info was given in that thread and seen a plug reading chart that was great but as I mentioned above today's gas just doesn't allow this. You have worn the screws out in the bowl making adjustments, all over the place with adjustments - rich idle - decel pop - lean plug with rich idle when your low jet / mixture screw / needle should be close. Concerning part is adjustments was being made away from the problem area and affected areas it shouldn't example: decel pop 1/8" throttle - big jet was raised and richened the idle due to soot so low speed jet was lowered (big jet doesn't affect low rpm's), repairing decel popping needs fuel on the low jet or needle raised to carry fuel over to the low jet and depends on exhaust reversion for how much fuel so these adjustments are incorrect plus the high jet can't affect low or idle mixture.
Here is the advice to fix this, buy yourself a basic digital AFR reader, weld a bung in the exhaust pipe 3" from the port and you will see exactly what is going on with that engine. I understand the caveman in a Harley owner over rides any thought of equipment but the bottom line is once giving into a AFR reader, it makes tuning so simple and is also a diagnostic tool once you understand numbers plus NO GUESSING, engine if fine tuned and peace of mind on a 98 degree day wondering if your going to stick a piston, the AFR gauge is a bargain if you stick a piston.
Here is the advice to fix this, buy yourself a basic digital AFR reader, weld a bung in the exhaust pipe 3" from the port and you will see exactly what is going on with that engine. I understand the caveman in a Harley owner over rides any thought of equipment but the bottom line is once giving into a AFR reader, it makes tuning so simple and is also a diagnostic tool once you understand numbers plus NO GUESSING, engine if fine tuned and peace of mind on a 98 degree day wondering if your going to stick a piston, the AFR gauge is a bargain if you stick a piston.
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Joined: Aug 2018
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From: Vancouver, WA
Just read your thread..... Here is the advice to fix this, buy yourself a basic digital AFR reader, weld a bung in the exhaust pipe 3" from the port and you will see exactly what is going on with that engine. I understand the caveman in a Harley owner over rides any thought of equipment but the bottom line is once giving into a AFR reader, it makes tuning so simple and is also a diagnostic tool once you understand numbers plus NO GUESSING, engine if fine tuned and peace of mind on a 98 degree day wondering if your going to stick a piston, the AFR gauge is a bargain if you stick a piston.
Aside from the rich idle condition, the 44/180 jets, 2-1/2 turns on mixture, and book timing are the best combo for running good with no hiccups. Maybe Im just trying too hard. Changes Ive made from before the engine work were the carb rebuild, pulling shims from needle, replacing the mixture screw with Yost (old screw was missing the washer and o-ring!), replacing the enrichener valve (starter valve), dropping the pilot from 46 to 44 (only one that allowed the mixture screw to affect it).
My V&H pipes have O2 sensor ports with plugs since I dont run O2 sensors. Will those work for the AFR sensors? What should I look for in a good AFR reader?
Last edited by pnwsurveyor; Sep 16, 2018 at 10:12 AM.
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From: Ohio
Thanks for the response Bagger! I have to say that aside from the rich idle condition, the 44/180 jets, 2-1/2 turns on mixture, and book timing are the best combo for running good with no hiccups. Maybe Im just trying too hard.... anyway, my V&H pipes have O2 sensor ports with plugs since I dont run O2 sensors. Will those work for the AFR sensors? What should I look for in a good AFR reader?
Post another thread for AFR readers and several members will chime in on basic affordable readers that work. You want to target 13.2 wide open throttle, 13.8 - 14.2 going down the road which is your needle, 14.0 low speed and idle which is your mixture screw released to the low jet, don't overthink the crossovers as long as the numbers mentioned are present. Target each circuit one at a time and be aware that a CV accelerator pump sends a AFR reader off the charts rich and cleans back up so don't think something is wrong when you roll the throttle.
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From: Poolville
Yes, a carb is a controlled prehistoric drip metering device and even with equipment we seem to overthink tuning a carb, it runs great on a Evo but just need to stay within it's tuning limits. Yes you can use the bungs in your V&H pipes to install the O2 sensor that comes with a reader, several of us use a Wego that has the ability to record data runs because with big engines it is a death wish to look down at wide open throttle plus can go back over data, they are pricey and not what you need right now.
Post another thread for AFR readers and several members will chime in on basic affordable readers that work. You want to target 13.2 wide open throttle, 13.8 - 14.2 going down the road which is your needle, 14.0 low speed and idle which is your mixture screw released to the low jet, don't overthink the crossovers as long as the numbers mentioned are present. Target each circuit one at a time and be aware that a CV accelerator pump sends a AFR reader off the charts rich and cleans back up so don't think something is wrong when you roll the throttle.
Post another thread for AFR readers and several members will chime in on basic affordable readers that work. You want to target 13.2 wide open throttle, 13.8 - 14.2 going down the road which is your needle, 14.0 low speed and idle which is your mixture screw released to the low jet, don't overthink the crossovers as long as the numbers mentioned are present. Target each circuit one at a time and be aware that a CV accelerator pump sends a AFR reader off the charts rich and cleans back up so don't think something is wrong when you roll the throttle.
Best advice your gonna find right there from Bagger...... and yea a WEGO III is a little pricey but it does the job very very well... I'll never use anything else on my built motor...... Trust is the name of the game....
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Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Brighton, MI
Found this info, maybe it will answer your question about you cam:
http://tpengines.com/wp-content/uplo...E-CAM-INST.pdf
http://tpengines.com/wp-content/uplo...E-CAM-INST.pdf
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