Oil Viscosity and Evo's...
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Poolville
That's not true... Most engineering tolerances we're set by the type of lubricants available.... Has nothing to do with cost...
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Poolville
For a while I actually used Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 motor oil based on this persons independent testing in this link,
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
I did not have any issues with this oil and temperatures stayed in the 200* range in my Evo.
It ranked 15th out of 262 oils tested. I also found out that it was the only oil Chevrolet would approve for the ZR1 Corvette. Here was an excerpt of testing..15. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This new “FS” version was tested in Summer 2016.
However, a 40wt hot viscosity rated motor oil is too thick to be ideal for most engines. It is best to select the thinnest motor oil viscosity that will still provide acceptable “hot” oil pressure. And you do NOT need to select the “highest rated” motor oil, just as it comes right out of the bottle, from this Wear Protection Ranking List. There are many highly ranked oils here, that will provide your engine with excellent wear protection. So, you have many oils to choose from.
I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil did have a 16% drop in capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, it produced an impressive 106,876 psi, which put this much hotter and thinner oil in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280F.
I'm sure there are some of you that would disagree with this report and to an extent I agree cause I never heard of this guy either so what or who do you trust? It does make sense though that oils react differently to heat and pressure, So based on that and this article I thought the Mobil 1 0w-40 was a great lubricant..
The first 20w-50 to make the list was not until #82 and it was Valvoline VR1. WOW... Imagine that.... Here's the excerpt from testing...82. 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, conventional = 97,677 psi
This oil claims high zinc/phos.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
It was tested Summer 2019. The psi value above, produced by this oil, came from testing it at the normal operating water-cooled engine test temperature of 230*F, which put it in the OUTSTANDING Wear Protection Category. But, this oil is way too thick for most any water-cooled engine. However, it is ideal for air cooled engines, which cannot control their oil temperatures well. And it is popular with air-cooled Harley Davidson Motorcycle Owners. So, for their benefit, I also tested this oil at the much higher test temperature of 275*F.
At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. But, this oil only had a very small 3% drop in capability. And even at that elevated temperature, it produced 94,850 psi, which still kept this much hotter and thinner oil in the OUTSTANDING Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was an impressive 285*F.
So though I would just add some food for thought...
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
I did not have any issues with this oil and temperatures stayed in the 200* range in my Evo.
It ranked 15th out of 262 oils tested. I also found out that it was the only oil Chevrolet would approve for the ZR1 Corvette. Here was an excerpt of testing..15. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi
This new oil replaces the older version called, 0W40 Mobil 1, European Formula, API SN, synthetic. See below for the older version’s ranking position.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This new “FS” version was tested in Summer 2016.
However, a 40wt hot viscosity rated motor oil is too thick to be ideal for most engines. It is best to select the thinnest motor oil viscosity that will still provide acceptable “hot” oil pressure. And you do NOT need to select the “highest rated” motor oil, just as it comes right out of the bottle, from this Wear Protection Ranking List. There are many highly ranked oils here, that will provide your engine with excellent wear protection. So, you have many oils to choose from.
I also went on to test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. This oil did have a 16% drop in capability. But, even at that elevated temperature, it produced an impressive 106,876 psi, which put this much hotter and thinner oil in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was 280F.
I'm sure there are some of you that would disagree with this report and to an extent I agree cause I never heard of this guy either so what or who do you trust? It does make sense though that oils react differently to heat and pressure, So based on that and this article I thought the Mobil 1 0w-40 was a great lubricant..
The first 20w-50 to make the list was not until #82 and it was Valvoline VR1. WOW... Imagine that.... Here's the excerpt from testing...82. 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, conventional = 97,677 psi
This oil claims high zinc/phos.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
It was tested Summer 2019. The psi value above, produced by this oil, came from testing it at the normal operating water-cooled engine test temperature of 230*F, which put it in the OUTSTANDING Wear Protection Category. But, this oil is way too thick for most any water-cooled engine. However, it is ideal for air cooled engines, which cannot control their oil temperatures well. And it is popular with air-cooled Harley Davidson Motorcycle Owners. So, for their benefit, I also tested this oil at the much higher test temperature of 275*F.
At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. But, this oil only had a very small 3% drop in capability. And even at that elevated temperature, it produced 94,850 psi, which still kept this much hotter and thinner oil in the OUTSTANDING Wear Protection Category.
I also tested this oil to find out its onset of thermal breakdown, which was an impressive 285*F.
So though I would just add some food for thought...
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,128
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From: Niles Canyon Ca.
Keep something in mind with auto grade oils of any type, they are specifically designed for solid bearing engines, this where the big PSI rating and wear protection numbers come into play and matter. A harley engine on the other hand has very few non roller bearing surfaces in it, particularly the twin cam and later bikes, rocker arm bushing are about it.
It's also why I chuckle at guys who pull their hair out complaining about they can't get high oil pressure, there's no solid surface sleeve bearings to build that pressure against. You can over oil a harley engine.
It's also why I chuckle at guys who pull their hair out complaining about they can't get high oil pressure, there's no solid surface sleeve bearings to build that pressure against. You can over oil a harley engine.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,117
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From: Poolville
Keep something in mind with auto grade oils of any type, they are specifically designed for solid bearing engines, this where the big PSI rating and wear protection numbers come into play and matter. A harley engine on the other hand has very few non roller bearing surfaces in it, particularly the twin cam and later bikes, rocker arm bushing are about it.
It's also why I chuckle at guys who pull their hair out complaining about they can't get high oil pressure, there's no solid surface sleeve bearings to build that pressure against. You can over oil a harley engine.
It's also why I chuckle at guys who pull their hair out complaining about they can't get high oil pressure, there's no solid surface sleeve bearings to build that pressure against. You can over oil a harley engine.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,128
Likes: 51,461
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
The bearing difference I fully understand... As well as oil psi.. but temperature and force is really the deciding factor for me.. How much force is exerted on our rod bearings every time the combustion cycle fires? We know that 225-230* for oil temps are common but we really don't know how much force is exerted on the rod bearing and as compression goes up so does that force.. I must say though that VR1 is high in zinc and phosphorous which is good for our air cooled motors. Might just be my long term oil...
Heads are where heat comes into play, lower ends on an evo are still force oiled through the pinion shaft into the crankpin so the rod bearings are running in a constant bath constantly. Twinkies and M8's because of the pressed in crankpin and 2 pc flywheels rely on a splash bath to oil the rods. Only time you see heat issue with lowers on the older bikes it's timing related or hellacious blowby going on.
Can't go wrong with the VR-1, been treating my brits then shovels well for 5 decades now.
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 51
Likes: 17
From: South East
Lubricants meets requirements regardless the base they use, you can achieve it through cheap dyno oils or better engineered syn.
What you have to meet is what the manufacturer says, Harley says you have to use 20w50, so what you have to do is compare data sheets from different oils, dyno, semi-syns, full syns... and check their attributes, cinematic viscosity, viscosity index, boiling point...
Of course additives are important, you have to research which 20w50 meets better an old Harley engine needs, anti wear and detergents, maybe oils like VR1 are very suitable because their good ZDDP levels but if you use a good syn with good additive package it will be simply superior in all terms.
Evo is easy going in oil terms, you dont have to meet high standard requirements, using a good quality syn just ensures the internals will last longer before wear the engine to the point a rebuild is needed.
As I said, so much myths spread across America about dyno oils in old engines, no point to keep using them, just use the right one.
Last thing, think the reverse, if dyno oil was mandatory the manufacturer would say it , no oil manufacturers would make syn 20w50 oils for Harleys, believe me, so many years researching info and learning from VOAs and UOAs.
Last edited by davicico; Jan 31, 2022 at 10:36 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,817
Likes: 7,850
From: SE Louisiana
I've been using this oil in the S&S Evo, TC and M8 for over 5 years, used VR1 for breakin.
I've made several 7000 mile trips on the M8 (61k on it now), oil looked the same as my regular 5k oil change interval, should of sent samples, but I did not.
The deals I was getting for three 5 liter jugs of LM came out to about $7 a qt. now it's about $10 and rising.
I got pretty stocked up before the destroyers took office, because I knew the prices where getting jacked. when I get low, I'll evaluate the prices and cost with oil change intervals between this and VR1.
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From: Long Island, New York
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Seasoned HDF Member
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From: Poolville
Ok, I'm done, I'm satisfied but what oil filter do you use and why... Lol...
