Oil pump or drive?
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,421
Likes: 2,621
From: NC USA
Other than the breather gear missing teeth, nothing to see here... so far. Only one thing more about the pump that just now dawned on me - If the bypass valve is stuck, it will not allow for pressure. If that turns out to be the culprit, still no wasted work since the breather is damaged and had to come out anyway.
Remove the slotted plug from the tower of the pump hosing. Take care to not dent the soft aluminum of the body. Under that plug is a spring and a cupped piston. Clean and inspect all that. The piston should slide freely in it's bore with no binding whatsoever.
The tappet guides WILL have to be removed and the gasket replaced since they were already loosened and inspect the their bores and lifters. That leaves 2 options - either remove the valve covers and rocker assemblies or cut the push rods with bolt cutters ans replace with fully adjustable push rods. Fair warning, adjustable push rods will make the valve train noisier than solids!
That looks to be a SEH-1 cam made by Crane. They are bad to loose the hard face off the bearing end so it needs to come out (after push rods, tappet guides removed) inspected, and always a good idea to replace the inner cam bearing whenever in there. They're only $10 and if they fail, can trash the whole engine.
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OK, a few new posts while writing the above, yes that would be the first place a gear tooth would lodge and cause issue. Those gears should turn freely. In that case with everything else looking good, it would almost have to be the key on the drive gear. remove the tiny lock ring on the inner end of the oil drive shaft and remove it.
Remove the slotted plug from the tower of the pump hosing. Take care to not dent the soft aluminum of the body. Under that plug is a spring and a cupped piston. Clean and inspect all that. The piston should slide freely in it's bore with no binding whatsoever.
The tappet guides WILL have to be removed and the gasket replaced since they were already loosened and inspect the their bores and lifters. That leaves 2 options - either remove the valve covers and rocker assemblies or cut the push rods with bolt cutters ans replace with fully adjustable push rods. Fair warning, adjustable push rods will make the valve train noisier than solids!
That looks to be a SEH-1 cam made by Crane. They are bad to loose the hard face off the bearing end so it needs to come out (after push rods, tappet guides removed) inspected, and always a good idea to replace the inner cam bearing whenever in there. They're only $10 and if they fail, can trash the whole engine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, a few new posts while writing the above, yes that would be the first place a gear tooth would lodge and cause issue. Those gears should turn freely. In that case with everything else looking good, it would almost have to be the key on the drive gear. remove the tiny lock ring on the inner end of the oil drive shaft and remove it.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 39
From: Guildford, UK
As to my post #70.......there is definitely something stuck in there.
The pinions are stuck solid. I can't move them even prying with a screwdriver gently.
I assume they should move?
The pinions are stuck solid. I can't move them even prying with a screwdriver gently.
I assume they should move?
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,421
Likes: 2,621
From: NC USA
Yes, they should literally fall out. Be gentle as you can, but keep working with a small pick or whatever it takes to get them free and out.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,421
Likes: 2,621
From: NC USA
Usually the keyed return gear cracks under these circumstances and oil stops returning. In this case it's likely the key on the drive gear sheared. May have damaged the inner end of the shaft and/or the drive gear.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 39
From: Guildford, UK
Or, you could simply say heck with it and buy a new pump. Either way, the shaft needs to come out, gear inspected. Using the shaft inserted into the keyed gear might help to break the plastic that's wedged in there.
Usually the keyed return gear cracks under these circumstances and oil stops returning. In this case it's likely the key on the drive gear sheared. May have damaged the inner end of the shaft and/or the drive gear.
Usually the keyed return gear cracks under these circumstances and oil stops returning. In this case it's likely the key on the drive gear sheared. May have damaged the inner end of the shaft and/or the drive gear.
I think that was where al the plastic teeth were hiding.
By the drive gear do you mean the gear that runs at the right hand end of the shaft that's still in place?
If so I can only turn the shaft slightly back and forth...... and that gear moves just the same.
Could it be the teeth (or tooth) came off the plastic pinion and they then caused the problem? Simple as that?
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,421
Likes: 2,621
From: NC USA
Managed to free them up!
I think that was where al the plastic teeth were hiding.
By the drive gear do you mean the gear that runs at the right hand end of the shaft that's still in place?
If so I can only turn the shaft slightly back and forth...... and that gear moves just the same.
Could it be the teeth (or tooth) came off the plastic pinion and they then caused the problem? Simple as that?
I think that was where al the plastic teeth were hiding.
By the drive gear do you mean the gear that runs at the right hand end of the shaft that's still in place?
If so I can only turn the shaft slightly back and forth...... and that gear moves just the same.
Could it be the teeth (or tooth) came off the plastic pinion and they then caused the problem? Simple as that?
Yes, drive gear I mentioned is the one under the pinion shaft of the flywheels. Actually, the keyed rotors inside the oil pump are considered "drive" gears as well. Reference the photo for what I'm calling the (main) drive gear. Remove the tiny lock ring from the shaft, push the shaft forward to expose the woodruff key, remove it then pull shaft rearward and out of the case. Then withdraw the gear.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 39
From: Guildford, UK
Not trying to question you, but assuming that we found the problem and that the shaft and drive pinion 'feels' okay, why are we going further?
Is it a 'just in case'?
If so, it will be a right pain to try and get that lock ring off........and even worse to try and get it back on.
I'd hate to do any more damage.
Is it a 'just in case'?
If so, it will be a right pain to try and get that lock ring off........and even worse to try and get it back on.
I'd hate to do any more damage.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,116
Likes: 7,638
From: Poolville
You're going to have to pull the circlip on the end of the oil pump drive shaft at the pinion gear.. With that piece of plastic in the gyrators in the pump, that shaft definitely wasn't spinning and you definitely either broke the key way or something in the cam chest.. A small 90* snap ring pliers will remove the clip.. It's not the easiest but not hard with the right tool..
One step at a time here hopefully the problem is there in the oil pump drive gear or key way and not the pinion shaft or gear..
One step at a time here hopefully the problem is there in the oil pump drive gear or key way and not the pinion shaft or gear..
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; May 23, 2022 at 09:43 AM.
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,421
Likes: 2,621
From: NC USA
Not trying to question you, but assuming that we found the problem and that the shaft and drive pinion 'feels' okay, why are we going further?
Is it a 'just in case'?
If so, it will be a right pain to try and get that lock ring off........and even worse to try and get it back on.
I'd hate to do any more damage.
Is it a 'just in case'?
If so, it will be a right pain to try and get that lock ring off........and even worse to try and get it back on.
I'd hate to do any more damage.
The shaft that goes thru the case into the oil pump is keyed just like the rotors inside the pump. Both the keys inside the pump are good, so it has to be a sheared key on the shaft that is turned by the main drive gear.
No way out, get the tiny lock ring off, and proceed as in post #76 last 2 sentences
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 189
Likes: 39
From: Guildford, UK
The opening to the clip is totally out of sight and I can't turn it to see it....can I turn the engine so I can see it?
I understand the theory that this key must be broken.....but it is still somehow keying. trying to turn that shaft has no effect, it's stuck on tight,
the 'spiral' that drives that pinion looks good too!
Edit to above: I can see the key recess on the pinion and the key recess on the shaft......and they don't line up. so it has to come out.
Last edited by splittie65; May 23, 2022 at 10:09 AM.