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Not familiar with a CK15 or 10 for that matter. For me it's rocks and clubs. Pretty much use Sunnen style portable hones and a 1/2 inch drill motor.. Not ideal for production but gets the job done.
rocks and clubs,,, I used a junk head to size and straighten some SE 110 drop on cyl's when going with KB forged (+.0015), torqued down on the empty cases.
rocks and clubs,,, I used a junk head to size and straighten some SE 110 drop on cyl's when going with KB forged (+.0015), torqued down on the empty cases.
I like it.. I might even it might even do a better job of simulating head loading..
I have made TQ plates in the past to do stuff.. 4 1/8 bore..
Has anyone checked the bore with a head torqued on vs the ring? Including a gasket? For the car engines I do I had torque plates made that were the same material and thickness of the head and I use the same type of gasket I used on the final assembly. Slightly different but on removable wet sleeve engines I found a fixture gave different results than in the block, the sleeve changed from hole to hole and if I 180'd the sleeve the reading changed again. It was an eye opener so each liner gets machined in the hole it will reside and its orientation is marked.
Rocks and clubs, claw hammers and bricks. Yep, I'm right there with you. I always wondered the measurement difference one might get using store bought plates vs a case and opened up head...
One thing for sure - regardless what type of plates and hone are used, best torque them down and walk away for 1-2 hours before sizing or honing. It takes stock jugs about that long to relax or settle under the stress. Torque one down, measure, hone or bore to size straight away, and the liner is contorting and morphing round/straight the whole time. It'll drive you nuts. Sometimes they move (size) a good bit, others seem to stay closer where they were. No 2 are alike. Can't speak to major oversize S&S stuff though.
Doing it by hand takes a lot of patience and time, mainly because of the heat from dry (rough) sizing stones and no matter how much oil you squirt on wet finish stones, you still get heat. I generally let one sit overnight before the final finish hone. Sometimes shocking to see how much round/straight they move with only 10 degrees temperature difference.
An automatic hone machine with coolant pump is a whole other world, mainly because the jug temp stays closer temp to the measuring device... and it's elbow doesn't get tired as quickly
Rocks and clubs, claw hammers and bricks. Yep, I'm right there with you. I always wondered the measurement difference one might get using store bought plates vs a case and opened up head...
{snip}
One thing for sure - regardless what type of plates and hone are used, best torque them down and walk away for 1-2 hours before sizing or honing. It takes stock jugs about that long to relax or settle under the stress. Torque one down, measure, hone or bore to size straight away, and the liner is contorting and morphing round/straight the whole time. It'll drive you nuts. Sometimes they move (size) a good bit, others seem to stay closer where they were. No 2 are alike. Can't speak to major oversize S&S stuff though.
Doing it by hand takes a lot of patience and time, mainly because of the heat from dry (rough) sizing stones and no matter how much oil you squirt on wet finish stones, you still get heat. I generally let one sit overnight before the final finish hone. Sometimes shocking to see how much round/straight they move with only 10 degrees temperature difference.
An automatic hone machine with coolant pump is a whole other world, mainly because the jug temp stays closer temp to the measuring device... and it's elbow doesn't get tired as quickly
Years ago Doug Coffey (Head Quarters) said that he like to loosen and re-torque the plates before finishing the final hone. I'm not so sure waiting after initial plating and waiting is all the good but everyone has their own superstition. Personally, if dry honing, I'll go to the other cylinder, swapping the plates and rough hone it before going to finish grits. I'll get close to final and swap back again.. These cylinders saw 4 swaps of the plates. While you might be relieving some stress by letting it set, honing itself probably does a better job.. The stones stretch the cylinder oval while the scrapers simply hold the hone centered in the bore. Using 80 grits, the scrapers wear out way before the stones do if you are going 10 over with stones only. If only cleaning up tool markes. the 80s last a bunch longer.
As far as plates go. I have 3 factory sets, 2 from jims (evo and TC), one from SnS (4 inch bore EVO motors) and the one 4 1/8 set I made. The Jims have shallow reliefs ground where the cases meet. The SnS are completely flat. The set I made have a cylinder base joined as 2 pieces like stock cases.. The only one that I've used and disassembled the motor with were the Jims TC and one with the EVO. Neither had any weird issues..
I can see the reason(s) for relaxing the plates and re-torque, especially after sizing .010 or more by cut or hone. First ones (OEM) ever I did, I was bluffed they were oval left/right instead of worn front/rear. Did the one, left the second in the plates overnight and behold, it was close to round the next morning. So re-plated the 1st one and it was f'd up several tenths. That's why always let them rest a while in the process.
Everyone has their ju-ju, methods and tricks and I'm a firm believer in whatever works for each individual and the circumstances make a difference in one's approach. (make a living/hobby/whatever) Main thing is, doesn't matter how you get there, a near perfect finished product in the end is all that matters.
Curious if any of you have heated the cylinders after the finale hone and measured the bores to see exactly where the it's at..? As in normal running temp of the engine and what the difference was in the bore.. If anyone is "Bored" it would be interesting to see just how much these cylinders grow...
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; Jan 3, 2023 at 06:47 AM.
I've learned to use the water hose with roughing stones, using stones that never saw oil, which also applies to stones used for dry honing, cuts really well with water and no heat issue, stones stay clean. Crazy huh?
On the other hand, I wonder what the bore does running at 250+ degrees
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