Clutch oddity??
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
Clutch oddity??
So, after putting the top end back together and putting 1k mi on it, the clutch is acting strange... I rode it to work, all week. Mon and Tue, when pulling out of my air conditioned shop, into the 80*F+ afternoon for the ride home, the clutch engaged late on the initial 1st gear drive off, then immediatly became normal again.. Typically, it engages close to the grip (less than 1" travel it begins to pull), no slip, positive power transfer, no issues. Today, though, it didnt come back to normal. It continued to engage late (out to maybe 1" of the fully release lever position). It still seemed to pull fine, but it felt like the pressure plate (on a car) not applying full pressure to the clutch. So, I was leary of pushing it too much.. I stopped by the dealer to pick up some plugs and then by my indi.. Both of them were absoloutely convinced that it was the "spring plate".. Made sense to me and figuring I needed a clutch anyhow at 47k, I tore it down. No problem there, all rivits are in place and it seems tight. The inner 3 frictions were a little toasty, but because the others were good, I assume thats normal "fiction zone" wear (no??).
Any ideas?? Maybe the outer spring?? Anything else?? Could I have done something when I had the trans cover off??
Thanks guys,
Any ideas?? Maybe the outer spring?? Anything else?? Could I have done something when I had the trans cover off??
Thanks guys,
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
I will be interested in what you find, the only differences with my situation it has been very consistent and I am using new parts.
I installed an Energy One high performance extra plate kit with the heavier spring and it works similarly. I tried one suggestion of setting it up by going through the entire adjustment procedure but only backing out the adjustment screw 1/4 turn from after it makes contact. I waited 500 miles and did it all again, loosened everything up and this time trying 1/2 turn out from contact and it is still the same way. It works fine, disengages well, doesn't slip but grabs noticeably later than the stock clutch setup with heavier spring. I did soak the plates for several days before installing them.
I can live with it, just seemed nicer the other way.
I installed an Energy One high performance extra plate kit with the heavier spring and it works similarly. I tried one suggestion of setting it up by going through the entire adjustment procedure but only backing out the adjustment screw 1/4 turn from after it makes contact. I waited 500 miles and did it all again, loosened everything up and this time trying 1/2 turn out from contact and it is still the same way. It works fine, disengages well, doesn't slip but grabs noticeably later than the stock clutch setup with heavier spring. I did soak the plates for several days before installing them.
I can live with it, just seemed nicer the other way.
Last edited by pajoe; Apr 30, 2009 at 03:52 AM.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
Hummm, so whats left?? Have you been in the trans end cover? Changed the actuator or cable?
Mine was fine untill Monday. Then it was just for a second, Tuesday, the same. Yesturday, it just gave up... On a car, it would indicate that the clutch is worn to the point that it needs replacement or the pressure plate is failing. My cable also seemed to lose slack. Nothing about it makes sense to me. If it were the cable, I would think the lever would be loose and the clutch wouldnt fully dissengage. Hell, anything should make it slip or drag..
I'll keep you posted. I'm sure I could live with it if I had to. Right now, its just not safe because I'm not used to the feel. I almost dumped it, expecting it to pull immediatly, that exra second or so makes a huge difference. Leaving a light is a trip too..... It cant have the same clamping force either..
Mine was fine untill Monday. Then it was just for a second, Tuesday, the same. Yesturday, it just gave up... On a car, it would indicate that the clutch is worn to the point that it needs replacement or the pressure plate is failing. My cable also seemed to lose slack. Nothing about it makes sense to me. If it were the cable, I would think the lever would be loose and the clutch wouldnt fully dissengage. Hell, anything should make it slip or drag..
I'll keep you posted. I'm sure I could live with it if I had to. Right now, its just not safe because I'm not used to the feel. I almost dumped it, expecting it to pull immediatly, that exra second or so makes a huge difference. Leaving a light is a trip too..... It cant have the same clamping force either..
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
If your clutch mechanism (cables,***** and ramp,clutch rods, etc) is in good shape and functioning normally, then you might want to check the transmission for end play. Remember the clutch is on one end of the main shaft and the actuating mechanism is on the other end. Any change in end play will change where the clutch grabs.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
If your clutch mechanism (cables,***** and ramp,clutch rods, etc) is in good shape and functioning normally, then you might want to check the transmission for end play. Remember the clutch is on one end of the main shaft and the actuating mechanism is on the other end. Any change in end play will change where the clutch grabs.
How much end play is normal on one of these? .010-.030"?? Can I get an accurate measurement with the clutch plates removed and basket in place, or do I have to remove the basket?
Thanks,
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
Thanks
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,378
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From: NC USA
I've see that weird clutch episode 3 times. Once on mine, twice on others and it was the adjuster bolt in the center all 3 times. They break at the locknut just where they go thru the plate. AND, they'll actually adjust (or feel like it) and the inner part of that bolt will walk in and out of the plate threads as you ride. One would never know it was broken without taking it all the way out.
I figure you already checked that, but thought it worth mentioning......
Can't remember what year yours is... but end play (in and out) on the transmission shaft(s) is zero.
The inner primary bearing can allow just a tick of side play on the transmission shaft but not enough you shoud be able to feel at all. The clutch hub bearing will allow a little play on the basket in relation to the hub, but that in normal so long as it's not excessive. (less than 3/16" measured at the starter ring with the clutch released or plates out)
I figure you already checked that, but thought it worth mentioning......
Can't remember what year yours is... but end play (in and out) on the transmission shaft(s) is zero.
The inner primary bearing can allow just a tick of side play on the transmission shaft but not enough you shoud be able to feel at all. The clutch hub bearing will allow a little play on the basket in relation to the hub, but that in normal so long as it's not excessive. (less than 3/16" measured at the starter ring with the clutch released or plates out)
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Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
I had the bolt in my hand but didnt really look closely at it. I'll have to inspect it tonight.
I'll take a look at the trans endplay too, I guess since there's no play, its a tapered roller bearing set-up? It's a '94, but I'm sure your right.
Thanks again,
I'll take a look at the trans endplay too, I guess since there's no play, its a tapered roller bearing set-up? It's a '94, but I'm sure your right.
Thanks again,
HDF Community Team
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,378
Likes: 2,574
From: NC USA
I figured you'd had it out already and probably wasn't the deal (whish it were - easy fix)
Mine was broken for maybe 3- 5 months and I didn't know it. Cable adjustments kept changing back and forth but not enough for concern. I even had the clutches and hub out once replacing the main seal and again for the inner primary seal. That time I just pulled the center plate and hub, basket and all and didn't even know it then. (Mine's old style, tapered shaft - easy to get plates out) It was broken precisely where it's threaded in the plate, so there were just enough threads on both pieces to hold and it was broken in a way that both pieces would turn with the allen wrench. Felt kinda dumb overlooking it so many times..... but chit happens
Mine was broken for maybe 3- 5 months and I didn't know it. Cable adjustments kept changing back and forth but not enough for concern. I even had the clutches and hub out once replacing the main seal and again for the inner primary seal. That time I just pulled the center plate and hub, basket and all and didn't even know it then. (Mine's old style, tapered shaft - easy to get plates out) It was broken precisely where it's threaded in the plate, so there were just enough threads on both pieces to hold and it was broken in a way that both pieces would turn with the allen wrench. Felt kinda dumb overlooking it so many times..... but chit happens