Ultima 127 problem
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
Please don't take this wrong or that I'm being an A$$ but when I read these posts, which I read all over the forums, isn't something wrong here. I mean people are paying all this money on engines be it S&S,Ultima,Revtech,TP,Merch and I read where this and that go wrong under 5,10 and especially 20 thousand miles and we are happy we get some free parts?
If all these motors are based off of "OLD" design updated. Why the issues. "Growing pains" ? What is growing pains got to do with quality? I also understand the BIG MOTOR issue and longevity but engines going only 10,000 miles and parts failing. I also understand we read the PROBLEMS on here. But how many others that don't communicate on here buy these motors and quietly belly up to the bar and pay?
I feel most of the companies do their R&D at the end user expense. Then throw us a bone and say here ya go. Where is the learning from the past mistakes of others? If I'm not mistaken this isn't NEW..... I just don't get it
So say here is a family man on a budget, upgrades to say a 100,107 or 113. Its a crap shoot that the engine will last?
jim
If all these motors are based off of "OLD" design updated. Why the issues. "Growing pains" ? What is growing pains got to do with quality? I also understand the BIG MOTOR issue and longevity but engines going only 10,000 miles and parts failing. I also understand we read the PROBLEMS on here. But how many others that don't communicate on here buy these motors and quietly belly up to the bar and pay?
I feel most of the companies do their R&D at the end user expense. Then throw us a bone and say here ya go. Where is the learning from the past mistakes of others? If I'm not mistaken this isn't NEW..... I just don't get it
So say here is a family man on a budget, upgrades to say a 100,107 or 113. Its a crap shoot that the engine will last?
jim
A lot of the parts are outsourced and at times the parts shipped are not like the ones that were sent for inspection/trials. Many manufacturers are cutting costs and some times parts are shiped that do not meet specs. This is found out by the part being used and having it fail. Even HD has fallen prey to this. HD uses the riders as test pilots all the time. Just get it out and we will fix it under warranty, great plan as most rider say "as long as you are in there......" and end up spending money. Hd is a lot more reluctant to honor it's warranties than Ultima anyday. HD gets 2/3rds the cost of an Ultima engine to rebuild you 80" EVO to stock specs, boy that sounds like a deal!!!! Don't get me wrong we have lots of customers who prefer riding a stock HD and that's great. That's what makes this world go round, to each his own. When someone has problems with a product, admits it and fixes it. That's what I call great.
Well I guess I'll get off of my soapbox and say "ride safe".
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 849
Likes: 2
From: where i'm at
While these engines are based on the HD EVO design there are numerous internal differences. Think about it a design for an 80" motor now displacing 50% more. Just the crancase breathers alone are being pushed to the limit. So if the designed engines would last 100.000 miles what should we expect from the larger engine that is more than likely being ridden a little different than it's stock brethren??
A lot of the parts are outsourced and at times the parts shipped are not like the ones that were sent for inspection/trials. Many manufacturers are cutting costs and some times parts are shiped that do not meet specs. This is found out by the part being used and having it fail. Even HD has fallen prey to this. HD uses the riders as test pilots all the time. Just get it out and we will fix it under warranty, great plan as most rider say "as long as you are in there......" and end up spending money. Hd is a lot more reluctant to honor it's warranties than Ultima anyday. HD gets 2/3rds the cost of an Ultima engine to rebuild you 80" EVO to stock specs, boy that sounds like a deal!!!! Don't get me wrong we have lots of customers who prefer riding a stock HD and that's great. That's what makes this world go round, to each his own. When someone has problems with a product, admits it and fixes it. That's what I call great.
Well I guess I'll get off of my soapbox and say "ride safe".
A lot of the parts are outsourced and at times the parts shipped are not like the ones that were sent for inspection/trials. Many manufacturers are cutting costs and some times parts are shiped that do not meet specs. This is found out by the part being used and having it fail. Even HD has fallen prey to this. HD uses the riders as test pilots all the time. Just get it out and we will fix it under warranty, great plan as most rider say "as long as you are in there......" and end up spending money. Hd is a lot more reluctant to honor it's warranties than Ultima anyday. HD gets 2/3rds the cost of an Ultima engine to rebuild you 80" EVO to stock specs, boy that sounds like a deal!!!! Don't get me wrong we have lots of customers who prefer riding a stock HD and that's great. That's what makes this world go round, to each his own. When someone has problems with a product, admits it and fixes it. That's what I call great.
Well I guess I'll get off of my soapbox and say "ride safe".
jim
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
There are some changes made to take in account the larger displacement, stronger wider cases, with reinforcement in critical areas and increased finn area for cooling just to name a few. But in order to keep some of the cost down there are areas left standard in order to make the selection of certain parts greater. There are also limitations in appearance that would make a redisgn of the engine impractical, after all we still want it to look like a HD. Then you take this large displacement motor and ride it like you stole it and expect it to last 100,000 miles, it ain't gonna happen.
They make smallblock chevy's (original design 265 cu in) that displace twice that now. They are not going to last 100,000 miles either. There just are design limitation and when you exceed them you need to expect more maintenance. We tell customers that every day. If you want an engine that has more power and will last stay under a 100" . But don't expect it to run with a 127". Even an 80" motor with increased compression, better heads,exhaust and carb will wear out and need maintenance sooner than it's stock brethren. Ok time for me to get off my soap box. Hope this helps
They make smallblock chevy's (original design 265 cu in) that displace twice that now. They are not going to last 100,000 miles either. There just are design limitation and when you exceed them you need to expect more maintenance. We tell customers that every day. If you want an engine that has more power and will last stay under a 100" . But don't expect it to run with a 127". Even an 80" motor with increased compression, better heads,exhaust and carb will wear out and need maintenance sooner than it's stock brethren. Ok time for me to get off my soap box. Hope this helps
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,389
Likes: 26
From: Windham,Maine
Most of us that do the big engine upgrade that have had the experience know what to expect.Any motor no matter the cubic inch if asked to do more than it was designed for is going to wear out prematurely.Those that do not know are the ones we hear complaining all the time on these forums.There are many big motors out there going strong with high milege,the owners do not feel the need to tell the world.The bottom line is how the motor is treated and more importantly maintained.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,577
Likes: 1
From: Lake Jem FL (pop 35)
As for the S&S... I just did a top end rebuild 60k on my S&S 93' Super Sidewinder Shovel. No issues inside.... None... My bud has 20k on his S&S 124. No issues.
I have another bud with an Ultima (110 maybe???). He does not ride as much as I do, but he has to have over 10k and has never had an issue.
I have another bud with an Ultima (110 maybe???). He does not ride as much as I do, but he has to have over 10k and has never had an issue.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 849
Likes: 2
From: where i'm at
There are some changes made to take in account the larger displacement, stronger wider cases, with reinforcement in critical areas and increased finn area for cooling just to name a few. But in order to keep some of the cost down there are areas left standard in order to make the selection of certain parts greater. There are also limitations in appearance that would make a redisgn of the engine impractical, after all we still want it to look like a HD. Then you take this large displacement motor and ride it like you stole it and expect it to last 100,000 miles, it ain't gonna happen.
They make smallblock chevy's (original design 265 cu in) that displace twice that now. They are not going to last 100,000 miles either. There just are design limitation and when you exceed them you need to expect more maintenance. We tell customers that every day. If you want an engine that has more power and will last stay under a 100" . But don't expect it to run with a 127". Even an 80" motor with increased compression, better heads,exhaust and carb will wear out and need maintenance sooner than it's stock brethren. Ok time for me to get off my soap box. Hope this helps
They make smallblock chevy's (original design 265 cu in) that displace twice that now. They are not going to last 100,000 miles either. There just are design limitation and when you exceed them you need to expect more maintenance. We tell customers that every day. If you want an engine that has more power and will last stay under a 100" . But don't expect it to run with a 127". Even an 80" motor with increased compression, better heads,exhaust and carb will wear out and need maintenance sooner than it's stock brethren. Ok time for me to get off my soap box. Hope this helps
jim
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 849
Likes: 2
From: where i'm at
Most of us that do the big engine upgrade that have had the experience know what to expect.Any motor no matter the cubic inch if asked to do more than it was designed for is going to wear out prematurely.Those that do not know are the ones we hear complaining all the time on these forums.There are many big motors out there going strong with high milege,the owners do not feel the need to tell the world.The bottom line is how the motor is treated and more importantly maintained.
jim
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Cheesehead threw and threw
Parts will be in Mon/Tues. Should be oil pump, cam, lifters, pushrods, gasket set, a few other things, not sure I'm not a mechanic, hopefully they have upgraded from '06 or '07 when this was built. If you were going to upgrade a part. out of your pocket, not necessarily for speed but rather reliability, which would you replace from the parts comming to me, from Ultima ?
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Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: Cheesehead threw and threw
Still waiting on parts, talked to Matt on the 29th, don't get me wrong, I am gratefull that they are stepping up on parts but I still have to put out a fair amount of money on labor and can't make any plans to ride my bike, on an engine w/less than 3,500 miles just a bit frustrated right now.