Origin of "Bagger wobble" woes?
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
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Origin of "Bagger wobble" woes?
You read a lot about "bagger wobble", and there are many braces and stabilizers sold (for $300-$400, usually) that seek to address this problem, mainly by bolting some kind of bracket, brace or shaft to the bike to keep the frame and swingarm in alignment. One of the newest is the Touring Link by Progressive which is a heim joint that secures the swingarm to the oil pan bracket (I guess). It is only for '93 to '08 touring bikes. I believe that the 1993 model year was the year they changed the oil tank to the Dyna style which is under the tranny instead of under the seat.
My question is, did this change somehow weaken the strength of the original rubbermount touring frame? When this frame was introduced it was widely hailed as being extremely stiff, and the bikes were known for their superior handling. My own bike is a '92 FXRS, which has a frame that is very similar to the touring frame, having the same style mounts and the oil tank under the seat, and I have absolutely no handling issues.
Does anyone here know what happened that caused the strongest frame Harley ever made, to become known for its tendency to wobble?
My question is, did this change somehow weaken the strength of the original rubbermount touring frame? When this frame was introduced it was widely hailed as being extremely stiff, and the bikes were known for their superior handling. My own bike is a '92 FXRS, which has a frame that is very similar to the touring frame, having the same style mounts and the oil tank under the seat, and I have absolutely no handling issues.
Does anyone here know what happened that caused the strongest frame Harley ever made, to become known for its tendency to wobble?
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,854
Likes: 20
From: Eagle River WI
My 93 FLHS never had this type handling problem I've heard some say that the flht style with the tour pak/ front fairing were prone to this so called wobble Can't believe putting the oil tank under the trany changed anything other than running cooler oil temp The bushing sets (rear swing arm stuff ) remained pretty much the same HD did some changes to the mounts between the swing arm and the frame P/N 47564-86B The B after the 86 usually means some change? I don't believe the FXR style bikes ever had this so called wobble ?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,558
Likes: 280
From: Russellville, Arkansas
I've experienced the wobble on several Electra Glides over the years. I've owned a few FXR's as well, but never experienced the wobble.
I had a 1991 Tour Glide though, never once experienced the wobble on that machine.
The 1998 models I currently have, these have experienced the wobble several times. It never happens while traveling straight on a highway reguardless of speed. It really only happens on long wide curves like off ramps on the interstate. If the curve has a dip in it and the speed is 65 mph plus....it's probably gonna wobble.
I don't have any extra brackets to prevent this. I am aware of the wobble, so I adjust my riding habit accordingly. (Don't ride it like a sportbike) I also keep plenty of air in the suspension, this seems to help prevent the wobble especially if there is a dip in the curve. I also routinely check motor mounts and swingarm bushings as well. Likewise, checking tire pressure and making sure your bike is not overloaded.
I had a 1991 Tour Glide though, never once experienced the wobble on that machine.
The 1998 models I currently have, these have experienced the wobble several times. It never happens while traveling straight on a highway reguardless of speed. It really only happens on long wide curves like off ramps on the interstate. If the curve has a dip in it and the speed is 65 mph plus....it's probably gonna wobble.
I don't have any extra brackets to prevent this. I am aware of the wobble, so I adjust my riding habit accordingly. (Don't ride it like a sportbike) I also keep plenty of air in the suspension, this seems to help prevent the wobble especially if there is a dip in the curve. I also routinely check motor mounts and swingarm bushings as well. Likewise, checking tire pressure and making sure your bike is not overloaded.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,081
Likes: 2,159
From: Ohio
I just had my swing arm off and my guess would be the fluid filled style bushings of the swing arm and front engine mounts, they look to be designed to float but allow the swingarm to flex. The new polyurethane centering bushings in the swing arm might be the cure to keep the swingarm stable and this is just my guess as a 25 year mechanic.
I purchased a SE drive belt, new tire and a andrews front pulley and didn't have the extra funds for the swingarm bushings or I could of backed my theory, they act like the poly bushings are gold lined by the price.
Next question, does the factory offset rear tire aid to the wobble? Mine is now centered with a new 150 tire and havn't noticed any problems in 700 miles, it might start dancing when the tire wears a little so time will tell.
I purchased a SE drive belt, new tire and a andrews front pulley and didn't have the extra funds for the swingarm bushings or I could of backed my theory, they act like the poly bushings are gold lined by the price.
Next question, does the factory offset rear tire aid to the wobble? Mine is now centered with a new 150 tire and havn't noticed any problems in 700 miles, it might start dancing when the tire wears a little so time will tell.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 640
Likes: 13
From: Hickory, NC area
I don't have much to add to the cause, but I wasn't really aware of the issue until this last week. Some of the backroads in Texas I was riding at 70+ mph and when you get into the long sweeping curves, generally with dips in it like mentioned before, there is definitely a wobble in my 90 FLHTCU. It might be worth the change to the poly bushings and I would be real interested in feedback from anyone that has installed them.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 424
Likes: 2
From: Middle of Kansas
I've noticed it the most if I lay on the throttle at the apex of the turn.
The wife even yelled "what the h*ll was THAT!?!
I told her it was a poorly designed trade off for a smoother ride and left it at that
I think I'm going to "fix" it this winter............
Start with the swing arm bushing and stiffen things up from there as needed.
The wife even yelled "what the h*ll was THAT!?!
I told her it was a poorly designed trade off for a smoother ride and left it at that
I think I'm going to "fix" it this winter............
Start with the swing arm bushing and stiffen things up from there as needed.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 226
When i first rode my '89 I had 20 psi in the air shocks and after coming from riding an FXR for many years, the wobbeling was unnerving and I hated the handeling.
I removed the rear air shocks and replaced them with a set of Progressive Shocks and also removed the air assisted anti-dive bullshit on the front forks and put Progressive suspension fork springs and 20wt. oil in them.
Eliminated all the wobbeling and greatly improved the overall handeling of the bike. Mabey my airshocks were just too worn out, but never having them before and experiencing how much better it is with regular shocks, I'd never go back.
I removed the rear air shocks and replaced them with a set of Progressive Shocks and also removed the air assisted anti-dive bullshit on the front forks and put Progressive suspension fork springs and 20wt. oil in them.
Eliminated all the wobbeling and greatly improved the overall handeling of the bike. Mabey my airshocks were just too worn out, but never having them before and experiencing how much better it is with regular shocks, I'd never go back.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,081
Likes: 2,159
From: Ohio
Yes, the Progressive's were a big improvement on my bike also and 90% eliminated any problems but it did the 65 mph acceleration entrance ramp dance with 2 up after the shock replacement once, did the 
while going thru it.
Like I mentioned earlier, hasn't danced with the rear tire centered in the swingarm and a new non dunlop tire, time will tell but there is a base problem why aftermarket (besides money) is persueing the swing stablizing system.
while going thru it.Like I mentioned earlier, hasn't danced with the rear tire centered in the swingarm and a new non dunlop tire, time will tell but there is a base problem why aftermarket (besides money) is persueing the swing stablizing system.
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
There are two issues here, regarding any wobble, which probably affects FXRs less than the heavier touring models. One is the cleve bushings in the swingarm, which mean the swingarm can move slightly under compression of the bushes. The other is the rear rubber mounts which mount the rear of the engine/gearbox in the frame, which can also compress slightly.
There is a solution for each of these! I killed both birds with one stone on my 1990 FLHS by fitting a True-Track Trackula kit, which replaces the cleve blocks with solid bronze bushes and adds an extra stabilizer link, like those at the front of the engine and heads. If you take a look at any Buell, or the rubber-mount Sportsters, you will see they have three stabilizers, including one at the rear by the gearbox. Harley replaced the cleve blocks some years after our Evos I believe.
The reason I chose TT is because only they supplied a kit for Evos like mine at the time (almost two years ago now). I also fitted one to my Dyna. These things are remarkable! They tighten both bikes up in all conditions, including riding in a straight line, but especially when cornering fully loaded. Not cheap, but now TT are a sponsor of HDF you can get a discount.
If you want to improve your ride, start with one of these!
There is a solution for each of these! I killed both birds with one stone on my 1990 FLHS by fitting a True-Track Trackula kit, which replaces the cleve blocks with solid bronze bushes and adds an extra stabilizer link, like those at the front of the engine and heads. If you take a look at any Buell, or the rubber-mount Sportsters, you will see they have three stabilizers, including one at the rear by the gearbox. Harley replaced the cleve blocks some years after our Evos I believe.
The reason I chose TT is because only they supplied a kit for Evos like mine at the time (almost two years ago now). I also fitted one to my Dyna. These things are remarkable! They tighten both bikes up in all conditions, including riding in a straight line, but especially when cornering fully loaded. Not cheap, but now TT are a sponsor of HDF you can get a discount.
If you want to improve your ride, start with one of these!
Last edited by grbrown; Oct 22, 2009 at 12:28 PM. Reason: Added para.
