cam question
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Joined: Mar 2010
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From: indiana
cam question
just put in a ev27,used stock gear, in a 98 ultra,fuel injected,measured for the shim came up with about .058,put in a .055 plus the thrust washer,and still have about .020 back and forth,checked the gap with the stock cam b4 i removed it and it had about .050 play back and forth,does this sound normal or am i missing/forgetting something 
seems like the other cams we changed in the past had very little play,but its been awhile and was on older evos
seems like the other cams we changed in the past had very little play,but its been awhile and was on older evos
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,251
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just put in a ev27,used stock gear, in a 98 ultra,fuel injected,measured for the shim came up with about .058,put in a .055 plus the thrust washer,and still have about .020 back and forth,checked the gap with the stock cam b4 i removed it and it had about .050 play back and forth,does this sound normal or am i missing/forgetting something
seems like the other cams we changed in the past had very little play,but its been awhile and was on older evos
seems like the other cams we changed in the past had very little play,but its been awhile and was on older evos
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 1
From: S.W. Florida
What?? unless I'm misunderstanding after 40 years, a feeler guage between the cam, locking plate and shim(s) with a feeler guage down the lfter block is the correct way to check the cam end play. I try to shoot as close to .015 on my engines if possible. It's also important to set up the lifter blocks correctly to match the oil holes and center the rollers on the lifters to the cam. I apologize in advance if I misunderstood.
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What?? unless I'm misunderstanding after 40 years, a feeler guage between the cam, locking plate and shim(s) with a feeler guage down the lfter block is the correct way to check the cam end play. I try to shoot as close to .015 on my engines if possible. It's also important to set up the lifter blocks correctly to match the oil holes and center the rollers on the lifters to the cam. I apologize in advance if I misunderstood.
A dial gauge will give you the info you need.
15 thou is way too loose.
There is just no need to have the cam sliding back and forth that much.
All you need is enough end play to ensure that the cam does not run tight at operating temperatures.
And that is way less than 0.015
0.010 is an acceptable maximum and minimum all at the same time.
Do not go below 0.005.
There is no need to line up the oil holes.
They are more than adequately generously allowed for by the gasket.
And you cannot allow for them anyway, as................
You do not centre the lifters on the cam, (as there is no lateral movement available.) You use the alignment tool to ensure THAT THEY ARE PARALLEL.
On your engines?????????? Man oh man
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 1
From: S.W. Florida
To clarify,
I always remove the lifter blocks when swapping cams. The bores are checked, lubed and new lifters are installed. Yes, I do use the alignment pins that make sure that everything is lined up properly. The alignment pins do ensure that the lifter rollers are centered or parallel as mentioned.
Prior to reinstalling the blocks, the end play is checked via a feeler guage through the open lifter block opening. With Harley's parameters, .010-.015 is plenty tight enough. As stated I try to shoot for an .015, closest I could get on my current VT was .016 The valve train is quiet and the engine is reliable. To each their own, but never tried to change lifters with the blocks still installed, I do have the magnets for removal and installation. Maybe I can learn something new, or need to buy a new set of feeler guages as mine are pretty old.
I also turn the engine over with the starter san plugs before reinstalling the pushrods. I can actually then see the oil flow and the lifters pump up. As previously stated, I apologize for misunderstanding.
I always remove the lifter blocks when swapping cams. The bores are checked, lubed and new lifters are installed. Yes, I do use the alignment pins that make sure that everything is lined up properly. The alignment pins do ensure that the lifter rollers are centered or parallel as mentioned.
Prior to reinstalling the blocks, the end play is checked via a feeler guage through the open lifter block opening. With Harley's parameters, .010-.015 is plenty tight enough. As stated I try to shoot for an .015, closest I could get on my current VT was .016 The valve train is quiet and the engine is reliable. To each their own, but never tried to change lifters with the blocks still installed, I do have the magnets for removal and installation. Maybe I can learn something new, or need to buy a new set of feeler guages as mine are pretty old.
I also turn the engine over with the starter san plugs before reinstalling the pushrods. I can actually then see the oil flow and the lifters pump up. As previously stated, I apologize for misunderstanding.
Last edited by Buddy WMC; Mar 16, 2010 at 07:34 AM.
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The lifters do not centre.
They become parallel.
TOTALLY different.
The cam has end float. Therefore.........
You could never definitively say that the centre of the roller is aligned with the centre of the cam lobe. AS IT MOVES.
AND IT DOES NOT MATTER. AS LONG AS IT IS PARALLEL.
Forget HD specs.
They are there to reduce production costs.
0.010 is not tight. 0.015 IS LOOSE.
You need to get an understanding of the mechanical principles involved here.
Not just a familiarization of HD specs.
As there is no absolute need to remove lifter blocks to fit an ev 27 in this model, any end-play checking method that requires that is useless.
That method was only valid at a time when dial gauges were expensive, and home mechanics did not have them. THAT IS LONG AGO.
No one can see a lifter pump up. What do you imagine you are looking at. It has an internal spring. You can see nothing.
Groannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.... you are off beam in every dept
They become parallel.
TOTALLY different.
The cam has end float. Therefore.........
You could never definitively say that the centre of the roller is aligned with the centre of the cam lobe. AS IT MOVES.
AND IT DOES NOT MATTER. AS LONG AS IT IS PARALLEL.
Forget HD specs.
They are there to reduce production costs.
0.010 is not tight. 0.015 IS LOOSE.
You need to get an understanding of the mechanical principles involved here.
Not just a familiarization of HD specs.
As there is no absolute need to remove lifter blocks to fit an ev 27 in this model, any end-play checking method that requires that is useless.
That method was only valid at a time when dial gauges were expensive, and home mechanics did not have them. THAT IS LONG AGO.
No one can see a lifter pump up. What do you imagine you are looking at. It has an internal spring. You can see nothing.
Groannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.... you are off beam in every dept
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,354
Likes: 1
From: S.W. Florida
Well Dynaman,
I can see where this is going. You have already insulted other members on the Sportster threads and here as well. I refuse to play any further. After 40 years of building everything from flatties to TC's, I've never had a comeback due to poor workmanship, But you apparently know it all. That said, sorry guys including those I've helped in the past. I'm out of here as apparently I have nothing more to offer.
I can see where this is going. You have already insulted other members on the Sportster threads and here as well. I refuse to play any further. After 40 years of building everything from flatties to TC's, I've never had a comeback due to poor workmanship, But you apparently know it all. That said, sorry guys including those I've helped in the past. I'm out of here as apparently I have nothing more to offer.
Last edited by Buddy WMC; Mar 16, 2010 at 07:12 PM.
Banned
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Now let me see.
I offer bad advice, advice not even based on sound mechanical principles.
I have this exposed.
Even though I have not been personally addressed at all, I......
Pretend it is a personal attack.
Call the other person a know-all.
Cry like a baby.
Claim greatness, making reference to my incredible experience and record, in an attempt to belittle the other person, (without, once again, involving any factual information), and thereby............
Actively engaging in the type behaviour that I have falsely accused the other person of.
Threaten to run away, expecting to be called back, and be placed at the centre of attention.
What I do not do is........
Act like a man, and clearly demonstrate the validity of my view with strong evidence based on sound mechanical principles.
Stay, leave, do whatever you want.
BUT DO NOT THINK THAT BECAUSE IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW IT ALL, THAT YOU ARE ABOVE HAVING YOUR MISTAKES CORRECTED.
Feel free to point out all and any flaws in my procedural advice.
But be like me, and stick to the mechanical side.
People call me names, but I do not call them names.
You should thank me. You have had some major misconceptions sorted out.
MJD98 should be thanking me, as I put him straight.
I offer bad advice, advice not even based on sound mechanical principles.
I have this exposed.
Even though I have not been personally addressed at all, I......
Pretend it is a personal attack.
Call the other person a know-all.
Cry like a baby.
Claim greatness, making reference to my incredible experience and record, in an attempt to belittle the other person, (without, once again, involving any factual information), and thereby............
Actively engaging in the type behaviour that I have falsely accused the other person of.
Threaten to run away, expecting to be called back, and be placed at the centre of attention.
What I do not do is........
Act like a man, and clearly demonstrate the validity of my view with strong evidence based on sound mechanical principles.
Stay, leave, do whatever you want.
BUT DO NOT THINK THAT BECAUSE IN YOUR MIND YOU KNOW IT ALL, THAT YOU ARE ABOVE HAVING YOUR MISTAKES CORRECTED.
Feel free to point out all and any flaws in my procedural advice.
But be like me, and stick to the mechanical side.
People call me names, but I do not call them names.
You should thank me. You have had some major misconceptions sorted out.
MJD98 should be thanking me, as I put him straight.