You cant use a used race tuner it marries itself to to ecu it was initially installed to by VIN. The dealer can download a calibration file in to your ecu or tune it with a new race tuner . both ways flash the eprom in the ecu. I would seek out someone that uses Direct Link From Techno research. I use it and it has been the only tuning system I have found to have liveable results on MM Systems pending there are no other issues with it such as worn parts etc etc.

 

Please look back to Post 4. That's the build we tried to match the injection to. When the adjustable '98 module came out (with much fanfare,) there were 3 downloads available. I immediately got the "Stage I" download for the pipes and A/C, but when we built the motor I tried their Stage III "Race" download figuring that we had to have enough for the heads and compression. It barely made it home, loading with fuel, bogging etc. We had no "maps" from which to choose, nor screens to analyze, just that download. So we ran a PC III onto it and adjusted everything to spec from my home computer. I enjoyed that bike without issues for 4 years and 65,000 miles.

Interestingly, the Stage II download on my '00 RG ( 95" from the factory,) has never needed any adjustments, even when going from the "stock" SE 203's to the Andrews 26 gear drives that I've got in there now.

 

Does the PCIII come with the "spec's"? Just curious if its got presets/spec's, a trial and error thing or if I'd also need an O2 to tune it.. I may be misunderstanding the PC, I was under the impression it was simply a piggyback module that would modify the original ECM signals. It does seem like a popular option, like I said, I'm just a bit leery based on my experience in the automotive world. It's certainly the cheapest option I've come across..

 

I have no doubt that based on its popularity it would work just fine. Back on the 98 (almost 15 years?) I think we had just the PC I or II. But even then you could go online to their website, find a download that pretty closely matched your bikes set up, download that particular map and install it into the PC on the bike. Then you made your "fine tune" adjustments after that.

I'm certain that they've got it down to a friggin' science by now! Jamie at Fuelmoto ( sponsor here,) is a specialist with the PC ( though I don't know if he works on Evo era.) You could always call him for some good advice.

 

I'll certainly look into it!! I appreciate the real world input.. What are your thoughts on that EVL3030 cam?? I was thinking it was too high revving for my application. I really use this bike as a primary highway commuter, idle to 3800, mostly 3-3800rpm on the road.. I figured the 3000 or 3010 would better suit my low end use.. Any opinions??

 

PC3 is a straight piggyback system that is locked, no 02 used to sample and make changes, the PC5 does that but don't know if one is made for a Evo. The PC3 does have a function the removes 02 sensor command on the Twinkies and most tuners tune that way and keep the 02's deleted.

Just searched the PC3 map base for a Evo and no maps are available with a camshaft change, all pipes and air cleaners so your SOL on a canned map, will require a dynotune to be perfect or guess and see what happens.

I use a Wego3 data system and created my own maps per AFR sampling, PC3 map display is a option of the Daytona Sensor Wego system. I would go with the earlier mentioned deal of working with Jamie at Fuel Moto because of map support and they created a system based off the PC3 that they use their name and cheaper. Jamie has enough knowelege to set up the map at purchase and help with changes in the problem area if they arrive

SE Race Tuner is a complicated system and married to the ECM as mentioned, the people who created Mastertune was the brains behind the Racetuner and offer a program to upgrade to a Mastertune which is a superior system to the Race Tuner but still complex and needs a dyno also, the Mastertune on a Twinkie has the ability to sample AFR data and you physically make changes to the map like a Wego system for a DIY tune but a Evo doesn't use 02 sensors so your screwed with the technology.

Now HCCHP is on to something as there is a SE cartrage for a download of a camshaft, red injectors, pipes and air filter. This system was in my bike when I bought it and worked well, if you can't find a direct link then Harley can install the ECM flash. The cam used in this is a SE3 which is a EV27 or the Vthunder cams your mentioning.

There is no way I would pump $1000 to $1200 into EFI system for a Evo when prehistoric drip responds well, sounds better, gets the good fuel economy. Technology has it's place and tuning is precise with changing maps quickly, cold starting properties and a weapon in the right hands but let's say a grand to $1200 for a modern Delphi plenom system and a dyno tune at $350 for 70 horsepower, I'm struggling with that.

 

30-30 worked well ( I liked to keep them at 2800 most of the time,( but notice that I went with a 26 on my '00 RG with its lower intake duration.)

 

Honestly, as a car guy, I wouldn't have a carb on one of my 4wheelers.. But, the bike is a different story.. I prefer it, maybe because I don't currently have the tools and training to tune it, then of course, they just don't sound right... That Direct link looks great, but appears to need a dyno, or at the very least a wide band o2, which continues to run that price up for this one bike, I don't see me owning another EFI bike, never know, but I hate to invest in the tools for a one time deal.. This bike was a basket case when I bought it and continues to be my "cheap" ride, so I don't like the idea of spending a grand on the EFI either.. Any total cost opinions on the swap?? PM would be fine if you guys don't want to put the info out there.. At this point, Jason will be getting a call from me about the PCIII, but I'd like any other opinions and options you guys may suggest..

 

Sounds like you are one of the best qualified members of HDF to stay with EFI and educate us on upgrading and tuning it! There is no cheap way of changing either to carb or another EFI, unless you chance on the perfect bargain. Changing to carb requires a new ignition system, but a replacement and more modern EFI also seems to have knock-on costs.

One of the features of the EFI versus carb debate is the perpetual internet myth that setting up or tuning a modern vehicle can still be done in a backyard with a screwdriver and a hammer. Having owned bikes since the 60s and Harleys since the 70s I have seen very few backyard 'tuned' bikes that run well, simply because there are not many of us with the skills or expertise to do a decent job. How many poor ole shovels can we recall seeing with an S&S carb and running like a b1tch?!

Nothing's changed! Installing a carb and getting the bike to run well requires a lot of effort, just as an EFI bike does. To do the job properly and competently with either of them involves expense and I don't see any short cuts for either set-up. As with any significant engine mod, either of them requires a dyno tune to give best results.

My own yardstick is to ask: will this bike take me across the Continent, smoothly and economically, starting out tomorrow morning? If it can't, it ain't fit to ride!

 

Haha!! Yea, I'm very comfortable with automotive engine management. In fact, I'd switch it out to direct injection or at the very least a modern OBDII style if I could.... But, in all reality, as well as I understand the theory and operation of modern EFI, I'm not a techi'.. The whole programing and mapping is just something I have no experience with and while I'm not opposed to learning anything, this appears to be something that many guys have been through and got the shirt for it.. I dont see me reinventing the wheel with this antiquated EFI system, I still have a hard time understanding how you could run an EFI system with no feedback, pretty dumb idea I think.. Manifold pressure is only a small peice of the puzzle..

I'm with you on the yardstick.. I'm not going to own a bike I cant trust, and right now, this MM has proven to be very reliable. I just cant make myself put a cam bearing in w/o changing the cam, and I'll need more fuel to handle that.. Will the MAP sensor make up for it?? In theory, a moderate cam should only change manifold vaccuum moderatly, which the system should be able to compensate for.. But, I've never had one of these on a dyno with an o2 sensor to prove it or disprove it.. Still learning and researching at this point..