Advice for a new guy....
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
Advice for a new guy....
OK.... I am a metric bike rider. Have been for a long time. But the wife and I are looking at a 2012 Fatboy lo. Very cool bike, but I really don't like the stock pipes. I want to put on the V&H big radius 2 into 2. It is a very good looking exhaust and it seems to be pretty popular. But I want to buy the bike turnkey. So, I'm assuming I don't want to tell the dealer to just put the exhaust on and be done. I'm sure I need to change out air breathers and remap. I have done a ton of reading, but I come up with more questions than answers. So... here are the newest of the new guy questions:
1. What the hell is a "stage 1" system?? I really am not interested in that intake system that looks like a 90degree snorkle with a big air filter on it.
2. What is the minimum I need to do to get the new exhaust done RIGHT? I don't want to be cheap, but I'm really not interested in performance mods. No disrespect intended, but if I wanted a really fast bike... I would be buying another metric bike.
OK.... more questions to come.
Thanks in advance, guys. Looking forward to the responses!!
1. What the hell is a "stage 1" system?? I really am not interested in that intake system that looks like a 90degree snorkle with a big air filter on it.
2. What is the minimum I need to do to get the new exhaust done RIGHT? I don't want to be cheap, but I'm really not interested in performance mods. No disrespect intended, but if I wanted a really fast bike... I would be buying another metric bike.
OK.... more questions to come.
Thanks in advance, guys. Looking forward to the responses!!
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Likes: 35
From: Northern California
"Stage 1" refers to better flowing intake and breathing exhaust. There are many different choices out there for both intake exhaust, but the point is to get rid of the restrictive OEM intake and exhaust. Stage 1 usually means a re-map of the stock ECM or the addition of another piece of electronics to enrichen the mixture to compensate for the increased air flow through the engine. Also many choices here from stock ECM re-map to TTS, SERT, all the way to Thundermax, which replaces the stock ECM.
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
OK.... so what do I really need? Keep in mind, I live in CA and I really have no intentions of any mods beyond air cleaner and exhaust. I keep reading some people saying that the stock ecm will adapt to a new pipe and air cleaner... some say to do a stage 1 flash of the ecm at the dealer... some say I need to spend a bazillion dollars to make the damn thing run right.
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
All modern vehicles including Harleys have to meet noise and emissions regulations when sold new. Changing the air filter actually means changing the air box, which is a silencer. That alters the way the bike sounds and runs. Changing the exhaust does the same at the other end, so to speak! A 'stage 1' involves doing both of those, plus tuning the ignition and EFI to compensate for those changes. It ain't cheap and I recommend you talk to your dealer. If he is switched on he will be able to supply, fit and tune for a decent price.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 312
From: Out of Commiefornia!
Best bet is get a high-flow AC, such as the SE AC, Big Sucker, etc... put on the pipes of your choice, then take it to a good tuner and have it dyno'd for a good balance between power and mileage. Since you're not planning to do anything else, performance wise, that should last the life of the bike and be the best investment in what you will spend.
If you're anywhere near the Bay Area, talk with Dyno Bob at RC Cycles... he's one of the best tuners out there.
Roger
If you're anywhere near the Bay Area, talk with Dyno Bob at RC Cycles... he's one of the best tuners out there.
Roger
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Likes: 35
From: Northern California
OK.... so what do I really need? Keep in mind, I live in CA and I really have no intentions of any mods beyond air cleaner and exhaust. I keep reading some people saying that the stock ecm will adapt to a new pipe and air cleaner... some say to do a stage 1 flash of the ecm at the dealer... some say I need to spend a bazillion dollars to make the damn thing run right.
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
As far as exhaust goes, there are lots of options out there. Reinhart, V&H, Bassani, etc, etc. Same for the air cleaner. I am running the SE backplate + K&N element.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 838
Likes: 35
From: Northern California
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Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,624
Likes: 189
From: Newcastle, Ca.
Get the pipes you like and hi flow air cleaner. Then as mentioned, if budget minded the dealer flash is the least expensive and works fine. Chances are you will get decel popping with a 2n2 pipe. Other options will cost more and may get you more power.
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K. Changing pipes and a/c,especially on a 2012 model will NOT need a tuner or a tune. In 2012 Harley went with wide band oxygen sensors so the ecu will compensate the a/f mix for the changes you are doing.
Now,honestly,you will want to get it dyno tuned. You will get more power and your tuner will richen up the air mix to cool off the insane temps these bikes see in stop and go traffic. Do you NEED a tuner and tune....no....but in all honesty you will want one. Jmo
Now,honestly,you will want to get it dyno tuned. You will get more power and your tuner will richen up the air mix to cool off the insane temps these bikes see in stop and go traffic. Do you NEED a tuner and tune....no....but in all honesty you will want one. Jmo
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
OK.... so what do I really need? Keep in mind, I live in CA and I really have no intentions of any mods beyond air cleaner and exhaust. I keep reading some people saying that the stock ecm will adapt to a new pipe and air cleaner... some say to do a stage 1 flash of the ecm at the dealer... some say I need to spend a bazillion dollars to make the damn thing run right.
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
I just want the thing to run well... not kill my milage and not run so lean I damage the engine. Anyone have opinions that meet those criteria?
The only tuner that has not been referenced in previous posts is the "pot" type system that allows the user to add fuel at various points in the rpm range; no dyno time required. For your application, where you don't plan on performance upgrades beyond Stage I, this type of tuner fits the bill. The Dobeck Techlusion DFO/TFI systems are of this type as is the new Cobra system. User friendly, easy to install and the user can tune to his liking.
In spite of what anyone says, a properly tuned engine will not pop on decel; if she pops on decel, the tune is off.
Whatever approach you take, make sure your dealer is on board with the upgrades with regard to the warranty; some don't have a problem with aftermarket tuners but many do.
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