You made it to the list.

 

I thought I was already on it? What a privilege it is to be on the ignore list of a retard

 

Serious comment. You've run yourself so far into the ground, with some very good people, in the future I don't think many will give your threads a second thought.
Hopefully you won't need their expertise on real issues.
It's been fun.....
Ride safe.

 

I know who the good people are. You are not on my list.

 

I have to fix something again.

The purpose of increasing the throttle shown in this diagram is not to accelerate through the turn as I have stated numerous times in previous threads.

The purpose of the increasing throttle is keep the bike from slowing down in the turn.

In order to have a "stable lean", the speed of the bike has to be constant through the turn. If the bike slows down it will corner at an ever decreasing arc. So you apply just enough throttle to keep the bike at a constant speed, and thus the "stable lean angle".



So the whole idea that this diagram was suggesting that we accelerate through the turn is not correct. The increasing throttle is just to keep the bike at a constant speed.

The source for this correction can be found at the article at this link
Controlling Your Cornering Arc With Your Throttle

...

 

It turns out that one of the best explanations for counter steering is in this wikepedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

One of the things that has always bothered me since this thread started is that the definition for counter-steering always uses the word "momentary" as in

But, all of the experienced drivers maintain that counter-steering through a turn involves keeping continuous pressure on the inside bar to keep the bike from straightening up to a zero lean angle.

Well if you read this article, you will see that the pressure that you exert to maintain the lean angle is not counter-steering. It is the steering torque (notice, not counter-steering, but steering) needed to maintain the lean angle until you exit the turn. Here is the direct quote from the article

Counter-steering is used to change the lean angle. If the lean angle is not changing you are not counter-steering. The pressure you need to maintain a given lean angle is not counter-steering, rather it is the steering torque required to maintain the angle of lean.

 

Hey! I did learn something in this thread...


I learned how to put someone on my "Ignore List". I only have one person on it. Anyone's guess who?


Usually I don't put anyone on such a list, as almost everyone has something of value to say, but in this case...


R,
Sanjuro

 

All of the so called "experts" in this thread have been wrong the entire time. What they have been calling "counter-steering" is not counter steering. It is the steering torque required to maintain the lean angle.

If the lean angle is not changing you are not counter-steering.

 

Lol......I think everyone should endeavor to get on his ignore list so that when he goes to one of his threads its all blank.

PS - if what it took to get on his ignore list was the girl on the beach.....well.....he's gay (NTTAWWT). Just sayin

 

Read it again. I'll wait........................

Ok. All of the words are important, so let me walk it through for you.

Counter-steering =

1. "steering torque" - Correct. Pushing forward on the handlebars is applying torque to the steering head. This force is in opposition to the centripetal force created by the rotating mass that is the front wheel. Go back to your video on the spinning top or wheel or whatever it was. The opposite reaction to this is the bike leans in the direction of the applied torque on the steering head. This is why it is called "counter" steering: the bike leans (and turns) in the opposite direction of the applied force. In fact, it is not "steering" at all. What the rider is doing is manipulating the lean angle of the bike.

2. "required" - This is an important word. What it means is that without counter-steering, you cannot alter the lean angle of the bike. This is not entirely true, but the faster the front wheel is rotating the more powerful the centripetal force. What this means is that, the faster you are going, the less effective shifting your weight becomes. In fact, at riding speeds and by "riding", I mean not in your drive way or parking lot, it becomes incredibly unsafe to even try and change the lean angle of a motorcycle by shifting your weight alone. In fact, if you only know how to change the lean angle with your weight and do not know how to counter-steer... you will end up in a ditch. Not might. Not maybe. Not possibly. You will. That is the importance of the meaning of words.

3. "to maintain" - Now, this is where your understanding of the English language seems to break down. This phrase means the same as "to keep the same". Keep this in mind.

4. "the lean angle" - The lean angle is the degrees of rotation from the perfectly vertical. So, if you imagine the motorcycle is like the hand on a clock, at 12:00, the bike has a lean angle of 0 degrees. At this angle, the turn radius of the motorcycle is also 0 (the bike goes straight ahead). As you lean the motorcycle over, the degrees increase. So, at 1:00, the lean angle is something like 10 degrees (I don't know for sure, but something like that). At 3:00 the bike is at 90 degrees and is laying on the ground. Get it? Good. So, the point is... as you increase the lean angle degrees, you are also reducing the turn radius of the motorcycle. Going straight ahead, the turn radius is infinite (going straight ahead) and at a 10 degree angle, the turn radius is like 50 feet (I don't know for sure, so just for an example). Get it? Good. In brief... as the lean angle increases, the turning radius decreases.

Ok. So, let's put it all together... "In order to negotiate a turn, the rider has to keep the steering torque the same." (This assumes the turn radius does not change.) That sentence is exactly the same as the one you quoted. Now, let's compare that to what you concluded: "If the lean angle is not changing you are not counter-steering."

That sentence is inconsistent with the sentence you quoted.

The lean angle does not need to be changing in order for it to be counter-steering: it can also be used to keep the lean angle the same. This little revelation ought to be an "aha!" moment for you. It is also a contradiction of the idea that counter-steering is "momentary" or to the concept that a "stable lean" is the only way to negotiate a turn.

In my next post... I will add some confusion though.