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In the following clip, it looks like the parrot is counter weighting on his left bird foot, to turn right. But I always thought you needed to weight the right bird foot to turn right. I'm really getting confused. OP - can you help me?
Now you're just being silly.
Everyone knows the parrot belongs on whichever shoulder of the driver is on the inside of the turn. This lessens the need for countersteering, and is also more fun for the bird as he gets a better view.
In the following clip, it looks like the parrot is counter weighting on his left bird foot, to turn right. But I always thought you needed to weight the right bird foot to turn right. I'm really getting confused. OP - can you help me?
I think the water being poured is screwing up his counter steering. If this was in Aussie it would be fine as everything is upside down.
You have a misconception of what I was saying that your misconception is.
The misconception I was originally referring to is that it seems that you believe steering to be in opposition to counter-steering. It's ok, I understand that it can be confusing. You have to actually understand what steering is to understand my statement, that they are not opposite each other. 3., 2., 1., you steer your two wheeled vehicle by counter-steering. There...I've said it...secret is out!
I understand your diagram (apparently better than you do) and am not intimidated by it at all. Turning a motorcycle is actually not a complex event (multiple factors at work together, does not make something complex), but rather a very simple event that takes virtually no thought to it or you wouldn't have to ask questions about it. Once you realize (if you do) that you are doing everything we're telling you that you're doing, without even realizing it...you might just get it.
A lot of what you wrote about the throttle having the ability to control the lean angle is true. However, the amount of pressure applied to the forward motion of the hand grip (turning the wheel) (I'll call this counter-steer),also effects the lean angle. They (throttle and counter-steer) work together to give you lean angle.
If your bike is at a standstill (no throttle), you can turn your handlebars left and right freely without causing the bike to lean. In addition, you can be moving at any speed you allow the throttle to give, in any gear you're in...and without turning the handlebar in any direction(no counter-steer)...you won't lean. To get the bike to lean while in motion, you must have forward motion (we'll call it throttle even though it can be at different levels, you need it to give you forward motion) and turn the handlebars, together.
So, you can control different degrees of lean angle once you're in it, with throttle or counter-steer and even with a mixture of both. I've done and do it all the time. Actually, we all do.
You seem to know how to read a diagram, but you don't seem to fully understand it. Your interpretation of it is half right, and will get the job done. It doesn't mean it's the complete explanation of the forces that are at work.
The diagram can also be written differently. It's actually incorrect as "counter-steer right" when you exit the curve can get you killed. it should have been written "level out handlebars" as you exit because as you let off your forward pressure on the grip, your bike will straighten up. I never press on my left grip to curve left and then press on my right grip to straighten up. I press on my left grip to get the lean I need to navigate the curve and then as I am coming out of the curve, I lessen the forward pressure on that original grip. The bike stands up on its own when moving forward and not pressing a grip forward.
"counter-steer right" wouldn't be possible until the handlebars were straightened out and then past center from the "counter-steer left" in that example. In other words, "counter-steer left" is the wheel in any position left of center when maneuvering a right handed curve. To go out of the curve and "counter-steer right" would be going past center (bike straight up) and cause the bike to go to the left.
I agree with you, we do not need to counter-steer right as we exit that curve.
You say my interpretation of the diagram is half right but you do not state what half I got wrong.
I would say that your interpretation is half right because you fail to acknowledge that the diagram shows that a stable lean angle can be obtained with only the throttle. There is no counter-steering during the throttle roll on.
The diagram executes a momentary counter-steer to the left to initiate the lean and then use the throttle to control the lean during the turn. That is what that diagram is implying.
If that were true - one could get get on a straight slab - tilt the bike over to > 45' - hit the throttle - upright the bike
Not happening
Centrifugal force..., and a bike's predisposition to travel in a straight line - are the forces that pull at a bike to right itself
Yes - faster one goes - more centrifugal force present - but throttling in and of itself is not the cause of a bike trying to right itself in a corner
============
Side note
When in the crux of cornering one should not be adding throttle - one should be throttle neutral (something for the dumbass OP to figure out)
Also when cornering - the lean angle better damn well be increasing accordingly - else you'll overshoot the apex (then it high side time unless you recalculate a new apex..., and hit it)
And as angle increases - so does throttle - to add more centrifugal force (which comes first - chicken..., or the egg)
Second side note
Epitome of counter-steering
Go in a straight line - lean the bike over (< 45' obviously otherwise you'll face plant) - continue in a straight line while leaned over
Everyone knows the parrot belongs on whichever shoulder of the driver is on the inside of the turn. This lessens the need for countersteering, and is also more fun for the bird as he gets a better view.
Pfft, amateurs......
You say I'm being silly but I'm saying you are half silly. If you see what condition my condition is in, you will come to the correct conclusion that the diagram is correct
Originally Posted by paoloD
I think the water being poured is screwing up his counter steering. If this was in Aussie it would be fine as everything is upside down.
I can see that my intelligence is intimidating you.
Originally Posted by smokingjoe
I think the bird is constipated that's why he is jumping around like that
Is the bird pushing down or forward? What is constipation?
This is productive. I'm glad that some of you are taking this seriously. The rest of you are not who I want to talk to.
Notice how the rider has initiated the turn with vounter steering, but is now counting on the centrifugal motion of the planet to keep him upright. But at what point do we accept Scientology and put our faith in the bike?
As riders build their cornering confidence they focus most of their attention on lean angle; specifically, achieving ever increasing levels of it. In their quest for pushing the limits of lean, however, riders often find themselves needing to alter their line mid corner and panic often ensues. We tend to do a predictable number of things when we panic (we tense up, target fixate, slam the throttle shut and grab the brakes) and all of them hinder our ability to control a motorcycle. It's better to practice controlling our speed as well as our lean angle before panic sets in. As riders build their confidence in leaning their motorcycles it's important to gain experience in varying the throttle position as well
If you don't crack open the throttle, the bike will continue to slow and corner at an ever-decreasing arc.
I think the preceeding quote is the reason the diagram (that I have been referring to) says to "roll on the throttle". We are not rolling on the throttle to accelerate through the corner (as I have been saying), but rather, we are rolling on the throttle to keep from slowing down and maintain a constant speed while cornering. If the bike were to slow down, it will corner at an ever-decreasing arc. I think that is why the diagram called it a "stable lean angle". We have to roll on the throttle to keep from slowing down during the turn, not to accelerate in the turn. If the bike maintains its speed it will maintain a stable lean angle.
all other things being equal, simply slowing your speed tightens the cornering arc as well. Ironically, it's this situation--the feeling that the bike is falling into the corner--that triggers the panic reactions that many riders find the most difficult to overcome. The simple solution is to open the throttle to the point where it both arrests the lean angle and it increases the speed to the point of widening the cornering arc. As simple as this sounds, our instinctual panic responses are programmed to do the opposite: tense up, target fixate, close the throttle and grab the brakes. By either avoiding panic by increasing our speed and lean angle in small increments or reprogramming our ability to overcome panic when we feel it begin to take hold, we can keep ourselves out of trouble and in control.
The opposite situation is needing to tighten your cornering line while you're already at the lean angle limit that your confidence allows
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 20, 2016 at 10:05 PM.
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Notice how the rider has initiated the turn with vounter steering, but is now counting on the centrifugal motion of the planet to keep him upright. But at what point do we accept Scientology and put our faith in the bike?
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No..no ...no. You are absolutely 100.3% wrong. You can clearly see that the foot is being dragged. That clearly counters any counter steering that may or may not be happening. Also he misses the apex because the rear suspension was over loaded caused be the rider pushing down from the constipation. The number plate also has huge effects on the counter steering as the co efficient drag formula is all over the map as it is clear the number 9 on the right is 1/16 " larger than the number on the left.
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