I have having a conversation with a child about being an astronaut the other day. I explained what I knew, and how one might prepare for such an endeavor. He seemed unimpressed. In the end, he dismissed my advice and decided to forge ahead with his plan to construct his earth to moon vehicle out of a refrigerator box and a Squirt soda/Menthos fuel cell.

I wished him luck.

 

Ok, I've been staying out of this, but enough is enough. I hope and trust that you found my original post in this thread to be both helpful and respectful. And I congratulated you on being dedicated to learning and improving.

But, enough is enough.

You, Sir, are making a total and complete fool of yourself.

The reason I stayed out of this steaming hot mess was because, in your defense, this conversation was deteriorating into a simple disagreement based on semantics, or, as I used to say back in contentious meetings at work: "Gentlemen, we're actually violently agreeing here".

No.

1. You cannot "push down, not forward" while sitting on the seat of the motorcycle. You are correct when you say that if you are riding any motorcycle handlebar that has any rise, it is impossible for your force on the handlebars to be purely forward. You are absolutely correct in saying that there must be a component of force in the downward direction. (Warning; unless you have a degree in physics, don't even start this with me.) Where you're dead wrong is in your continued statement that you are pressing only downward. That is, of course, unless you are standing upright on the pegs, body weight poised directly above the steering head, and pushing straight downward like you're doing a standing pushup, utter and complete bullshit. You're wrong. Even with apes above your head, there is always a component of the force in the forward direction. Otherwise, you couldn't make the f**king motorcycle take a curve.

2. If you're taking a curve at road speeds you are countersteering. Period. Yes, your initial countersteering push is more forceful since it must initiate the lean, but in order to maintain the radius of the curve you are in you are constantly making minute adjustments to the countersteering force throughout the curve. To suggest otherwise is stupid. Stupid. You are deluding yourself because of your own inability to feel and understand what's going on underneath you.

3. If you are in the middle of an aggressive curve, and you maintain throttle position, either with a cruise control, throttle lock, or simply by gently holding the throttle between finger and thumb, if you let go of the bars the bike will immediately lean less and curve less. To imply that it will continue to maintain the radius of the curve without you maintaining some slight countersteering pressure on the handlebar throughout the curve is stupid. Stupid. You ARE maintaining some countersteering pressure. On the other hand, if you're in a "gentle" curve that could be taken at 100, and you're doing 35, you're correct, you don't actually need to countersteer. You can maintain the radius of the turn by gently shifting your weight by picking your left nostril with your right index finger. That is not what we're talking about here.

At this point, while I don't understand why you are rejecting 100% of the input from some very experienced and highly trained riders, it no longer matters.

You're either a dedicated troll, writing these posts simply to get people riled up for your own amusement, or you're in some kind of substance induced fog while you're riding.

To every single newer or beginner rider who is following this thread, do NOT pay any attention to what MikerR1 has been saying. It is garbage, and it could get you killed.

 

IdahoTracker, you did not read the entire thread. You are making incorrect conclusions.

I did not reject 100% of the input. I have been trying to get to the truth of the matter from the many diverse opinions. And I think I was able to do that.

There are many ways to negotiate a curve. In the Look, Lean and Roll technique, you do not have use counter-steering during the turn. Instead you use a momentary counter-steer at the beginning ( the lean part of Look,Lean and Roll)

As Halojumper pointed out, the Look,Lean and Roll technique is not applicable to the large sweeper curves that we find on highways. This was one of the main reasons I started this thread. I needed a way to negotiate those large sweepers without slowing down on the highway. The continuous counter-steering method is the solution for that.

I have been using, without really knowing it, the Look, Lean and Roll method for turning. I have been using the method for counter steering that I learned in the MSF class. I have been pushing down on my handle bars, and yes, that method has allowed me to tip the bike in the direction I want to go. Because I was pushing down (with only a component of force in the forward direction) I was not getting the proper leverage. and could not lean the bike very far. (Frankly this was ok for me) Because I could not lean much I had to slow down. However, when I started riding the highways I realized I needed a new method.

Since the way I have been doing it has kept me alive for so long I really do not see anything wrong with it. It is a good method for the street.

I never intended to have anyone take my advice on how to counter-steer. I stated that from the very beginning and have repeated it over and over. I said I was doing it wrong in the very first post.

What I did intend was to get as good a discussion as possible started and good information injected so people can make up their own mind about counter-steering. I think the subject was covered pretty well and I was willing to take all of the abuse in order to see it through.

 

this thread will explode in ....................................5

 

Yep

TSheff's video WAS Mike...

cool.

 

You have 3 degrees? You should ask about a refund.

 

The MSF BRC book I have (published in 2014) states "If you find yourself running wide in a turn, press more on the inside handgrip to increase lean." So yes, MSF does teach that you countersteer through the turn, keeping pressure on the bar all the way through.

 

No, it is not wrong. Your entire argument is based on taking a curve 'at speed' whatever that means.

Note there is no counter steering in the curve and you roll on the throttle.

You Look, Lean and Roll

Note: Positive Steering is counter-steering



This is exactly what the diagram I posted earlier showed.

 

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