Counter-steering
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2016
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From: Clearwater, Idaho
In addition, it appears I was being a bit too serious (or obtuse) in my reply........
Last edited by martinj; Oct 23, 2016 at 01:28 PM.
Road Captain
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From: Durango CO
A passenger does not have to do anything out of the norm when you countersteer.
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From: poway
Please go back to my previous post (#821) and review my quote from the youtube video you so proudly posted. No, wait-- I'll repeat it here for you:
"Your bike has a natural tendency to stay upright, which gets stronger the faster you go. So, the faster you go, the more you need to actively countersteer, even through the turn, to overcome the self righting tendency. At race speeds, racers are actually using a tremendous amount of countersteering force just tokeep their bikes leaned over".
Countersteering can be used two ways, apparently--at least according to this video (which, as you know, I and quite a few others agree with). One is to initiate a turn, the other is to stay in the turn. It says it right here, in the video you linked to, at 3:45:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc#t=2m0s
Again, I'd like to hear you comments...
Just realized... I'm probably on Mikey's ignore list. So much the better....
"Your bike has a natural tendency to stay upright, which gets stronger the faster you go. So, the faster you go, the more you need to actively countersteer, even through the turn, to overcome the self righting tendency. At race speeds, racers are actually using a tremendous amount of countersteering force just tokeep their bikes leaned over".
Countersteering can be used two ways, apparently--at least according to this video (which, as you know, I and quite a few others agree with). One is to initiate a turn, the other is to stay in the turn. It says it right here, in the video you linked to, at 3:45:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C848R9xWrjc#t=2m0s
Again, I'd like to hear you comments...
Just realized... I'm probably on Mikey's ignore list. So much the better....
You are mixing other characteristics in with what counter steer is.. Self righting is based on tire profile and rake / trail.. Trail is what uprights the bike.. Not sure what you mean by "actively counter-steer" Do you mean more turn on the bars? Or more force? Sounds like you are mixing the gyroscopic forces of the wheels with counter-steer to set up the turn.. They are different.
The last sentence in red really depends on the bike.. For me the most common is that the bike wants to self right which means you need to pull the bars into turn (over-steer?) when the rear tire is bald / squared. The rest of the time you want steering to be neutral while in the corner. That's tire contour / rake / trail..
BTW, The video has an error.. You counter-steer going into the turn and not coming out.. Coming out of the turn you over-steer. You need to turn the bars more to get the tires back under the CG vertically.
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 11,688
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From: Clearwater, Idaho
It's not my stuff. It came directly out of the video I linked to. The one that Mike linked to in support of his assertions.
I don't think so. Oversteer implies that you gave the bike too much input and it then reacted more than you intended.
Last edited by martinj; Oct 23, 2016 at 04:58 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2015
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From: Ohio
But a passenger has to actively fight against you to be a problem. As the bike leans into a curve a passenger sitting upright will naturally lean as the bike leans. They would have to actually lean to the right during a left turn (or vise versa) to be a problem. It's the same when going strait. A passenger isn't a problem unless they sometimes lean way off to the right and later lean way off to the left.
A passenger does not have to do anything out of the norm when you countersteer.
A passenger does not have to do anything out of the norm when you countersteer.
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From: PA
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Banned
Joined: Sep 2016
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From: Texas
"So, the faster you go, the more you need to actively countersteer, even through the turn, to overcome the self righting tendency. At race speeds, racers are actually using a tremendous amount of countersteering force just tokeep their bikes leaned over".
The bike wants to counter-steer. It does not like being leaned over. If you remove the pressure, the bike is going to counter-steer itself to a zero lean angle. If you remove the pressure on the bars, the lean angle will change. If you keep the pressure on the bars the lean angle will be stable.
Removing the pressure from the inside bar is equivalent to pushing on the outside bar with twice the force that you are holding on the inside bar.
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 23, 2016 at 05:44 PM.
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From: poway
You call it what you like, terminating the turn ain't counter-steer.. Unless your definition is different.. For me counter-steer means turning the handlebars in the direction opposite the desired direction of travel. Over-steer sounds good, as to pull out of the turn, you need to turn the handle bars tighter into the turn than what is needed for correct line through the turn.
Add:
I've been thinking about what I said and "terminating the turn ain't counter-steer." It could be considered counter-steer.. Define counter steer as simply, "steering the bike in the direction opposite the desired direction of travel" In that case you are counter steering at the end of the turn by turning tighter when you want to go straight.
Last edited by Max Headflow; Oct 23, 2016 at 08:51 PM. Reason: Add: correction