Counter-steering
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Idaho
The OP, MikerR1, has simply changed the definition of countersteering to something else, and he's now arguing that everyone is wrong, because everyone except him is using the correct definition of countersteering.
Countersteering is the application of pressure on the handlebars in the opposite direction of the intended turn. That's it. That's all there is, there ain't no more.
You apply more pressure at the beginning of the curve than you apply in the middle of the curve to maintain the radius of the curve. It's still countersteerting, all the way through.
At the end of the curve you can relax or release the pressure and the bike will straighten up, or you can actively reverse the pressure so that the bike will straighten up much more quickly, which is what you would do if you were setting yourself up for an immediate change of direction to a turn the opposite way. That's why bombing through a series of tight S curves is so much fun, it's that transitioning from one direction to the opposite direction with an aggressive change in handlebar pressure.
Doesn't get much more fun than that!
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From: Texas
Actually, Martin's post that you quoted in red is correct, but you have unintentionally pinpointed the entire reason this thread has deteriorated into a pissfest:
The OP, MikerR1, has simply changed the definition of countersteering to something else, and he's now arguing that everyone is wrong, because everyone except him is using the correct definition of countersteering.
Countersteering is the application of pressure on the handlebars in the opposite direction of the intended turn. That's it. That's all there is, there ain't no more.
You apply more pressure at the beginning of the curve than you apply in the middle of the curve to maintain the radius of the curve. It's still countersteerting, all the way through.
At the end of the curve you can relax or release the pressure and the bike will straighten up, or you can actively reverse the pressure so that the bike will straighten up much more quickly, which is what you would do if you were setting yourself up for an immediate change of direction to a turn the opposite way. That's why bombing through a series of tight S curves is so much fun, it's that transitioning from one direction to the opposite direction with an aggressive change in handlebar pressure.
Doesn't get much more fun than that!
The OP, MikerR1, has simply changed the definition of countersteering to something else, and he's now arguing that everyone is wrong, because everyone except him is using the correct definition of countersteering.
Countersteering is the application of pressure on the handlebars in the opposite direction of the intended turn. That's it. That's all there is, there ain't no more.
You apply more pressure at the beginning of the curve than you apply in the middle of the curve to maintain the radius of the curve. It's still countersteerting, all the way through.
At the end of the curve you can relax or release the pressure and the bike will straighten up, or you can actively reverse the pressure so that the bike will straighten up much more quickly, which is what you would do if you were setting yourself up for an immediate change of direction to a turn the opposite way. That's why bombing through a series of tight S curves is so much fun, it's that transitioning from one direction to the opposite direction with an aggressive change in handlebar pressure.
Doesn't get much more fun than that!
According to your definition countersteering is merely the application of pressure to the bars. That is not the definition.
A few days and posts ago I asked you a question and you never answered it. I asked you why the the definition of counter-steer always has the word "momentary" in it as in the following definition...
Countersteering is used by single-track vehicle operators, such as cyclists and motorcyclists, to initiate a turn toward a given direction by momentarily steering counter to the desired direction ("steer left to turn right").
The above definition does not say anything about pressure, it says counter-steering not counter-pressure. There is a big difference.
What you are trying to do is to define a new term, counter-pressure.
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 23, 2016 at 06:23 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2014
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From: Idaho
No, the OP has not simply changed the definition of counter-steering to something else. What i think just happened is that you just tried to change the definition to something else.
According to your definition countersteering is merely the application of pressure to the bars. That is not the definition...
According to your definition countersteering is merely the application of pressure to the bars. That is not the definition...
The definition of countersteering absolutely does not "always" include the word "momentary".
During the two day, 16 hour motor officer type training that I've taken, twice, I asked the senior Motor Officer Instructor for the entire state this question: "Do you keep countersteering throughout the curve?"
"Yes, absolutely."
Of course, he's wrong and you're right.
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From: Texas
When I said that, which is correct, by the way, I certainly included the implication that the application of force is enough to actually turn the handlebars. Otherwise, nothing would happen.
I can search the internet and come up with anything I like.
The definition of countersteering absolutely does not "always" include the word "momentary".
During the two day, 16 hour motor officer type training that I've taken, twice, I asked the senior Motor Officer Instructor for the entire state this question: "Do you keep countersteering throughout the curve?"
"Yes, absolutely."
Of course, he's wrong and you're right.
I can search the internet and come up with anything I like.
The definition of countersteering absolutely does not "always" include the word "momentary".
During the two day, 16 hour motor officer type training that I've taken, twice, I asked the senior Motor Officer Instructor for the entire state this question: "Do you keep countersteering throughout the curve?"
"Yes, absolutely."
Of course, he's wrong and you're right.
By making that not so simple change you make my point. If you apply pressure to the bars but you do not move the bars you are not counter-steering. You are just keeping pressure on the bars to maintain your lean.
You need to read this post by bwoltz. He absolutely nailed counter-steering and he speaks using the terms that I am sure you will understand. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15618214
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 23, 2016 at 06:39 PM.
Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 11,470
Likes: 3,572
From: Idaho
Once you modify your definition so that the force has to be enough to actually turn the handlebars then you are steering. That significant change turns your definition from counter-pressure into counter-steering.
By making that simple change you make my point. If you apply pressure to the bars but you do not move the bars you are not counter-steering. You are just keeping pressure on the bars to maintain your lean....
By making that simple change you make my point. If you apply pressure to the bars but you do not move the bars you are not counter-steering. You are just keeping pressure on the bars to maintain your lean....
Period.
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Banned
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From: Texas
I think you should read this post by bwoltz. He absolutely nailed counter-steering and he speaks using terms that I am sure you will understand. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15618214
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 23, 2016 at 06:46 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: anacoco, la
so according to your logic, if I am in a big field in my car, and i'm going straight. when I make a left turn, I actively turn the wheel to the left. the car begins to turn in a left arc. now, once I stop applying that active left turning and just hold the steering wheel in place, I am no longer turning left. even though the car is still moving in a counter-clockwise (aka left) arc.
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Banned
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From: Texas
so according to your logic, if I am in a big field in my car, and i'm going straight. when I make a left turn, I actively turn the wheel to the left. the car begins to turn in a left arc. now, once I stop applying that active left turning and just hold the steering wheel in place, I am no longer turning left. even though the car is still moving in a counter-clockwise (aka left) arc.
When you hold pressure on the bars you are still turning left, but you are turning left with a constant lean angle and arc. If you want to change that arc, you have to push harder on the bars to make the bike fall over and then quickly turn into the direction of the new lean. Then your front wheel will be pointing to(on) a new arc. The only reason you counter-steered was to get the bike to go out of balance so it would fall over some more so that you could turn into that new lean and create a new path. The whole point is to get the front wheel pointing to a new, tighter, path. To maintain that new path you are going to have to keep even more pressure on the bars.
You need to read this post by bwoltz. He absolutely nailed counter-steering and he speaks using the terms that I am sure you will understand. https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15618214
Last edited by MikerR1; Oct 23, 2016 at 07:03 PM.
