Oil Foaming?
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Joined: Aug 2009
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From: Maryland
Oil Foaming?
Hey guys, I've got a quick question. I'm the fella who built the Harley Twin Cam B powered roadster that's built on a 1967 Volkswagon Beetle frame. As any of you who've seem my previous posts know, I've had issues with the engine. It blew up in the garage without ever getting on the road with probably less than an hours running time on it. The CAM sprocket slipped on the crank, a common problem with these engines I'm told. While I had it repaired, I had the crank trued, and the pin between the two crank halves along with the CAM sprocket TIG welded in place. No more slipping. I also went ahead and had 512 CAMs put in it.
So, it runs, but I continue to have electric fuel pressure issues (the engine is carbed). S&S told me the float valve will hold back 1-2psi and I'm running on an indicated 1psi on a Holley gauge, but most folks say they, like most fuel pressure gauges are junk especially on the low end. Again, not the issue.
While running the engine yesterday, just to the warmed up stage, I opened the oil reserve. The new oil looked like coffee with tons of cream in it. I shut the engine down, unsure of what it was. After a short while, it cleared and I stuck the blade of a screwdriver into the oil and it came out a clean honey color (like it should (20w-50 V-Twin oil)). So I just ran it again and with in a minute, maybe two, I noticed the oil starting to turn cream colored. At this point I'm assuming air in the oil is the problem.
My question is, where can the air be getting into the oil?
Am I looking at a huge problem? Like maybe the oil pump on the scavenge side?
I am beyond frustrated with all this at this point, even considering scraping the whole Harley engine thing and just going back to a VW engine. It was awesome though f or the 11 miles I got to drive it.
Larry
So, it runs, but I continue to have electric fuel pressure issues (the engine is carbed). S&S told me the float valve will hold back 1-2psi and I'm running on an indicated 1psi on a Holley gauge, but most folks say they, like most fuel pressure gauges are junk especially on the low end. Again, not the issue.
While running the engine yesterday, just to the warmed up stage, I opened the oil reserve. The new oil looked like coffee with tons of cream in it. I shut the engine down, unsure of what it was. After a short while, it cleared and I stuck the blade of a screwdriver into the oil and it came out a clean honey color (like it should (20w-50 V-Twin oil)). So I just ran it again and with in a minute, maybe two, I noticed the oil starting to turn cream colored. At this point I'm assuming air in the oil is the problem.
My question is, where can the air be getting into the oil?
Am I looking at a huge problem? Like maybe the oil pump on the scavenge side?
I am beyond frustrated with all this at this point, even considering scraping the whole Harley engine thing and just going back to a VW engine. It was awesome though f or the 11 miles I got to drive it.
Larry
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,751
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From: Catalina AZ
Not sure on the air possibility..... but will wait for some more knowledgeable folks to respond.
But have a question, did the motor set for any time length?
If yes what condition was the motor stored in (variations in tempature & humidity)?
But have a question, did the motor set for any time length?
If yes what condition was the motor stored in (variations in tempature & humidity)?
Last edited by GRWHD; Dec 21, 2017 at 11:23 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,649
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From: Indianapolis
The cream colored oil cold be a sign of moisture (water) in the oil. That is normal when an engine is first started especially in colder weather.
When the oil gets up to operating temp the moisture is removed from the engine through the head breather bolts.
The Harley is a dry sump oil system, it is designed to have a larger volume oil scavenge /return pump than the oil feed pump. The dry-sump pump is designed with multiple stages to ensure that all the oil is scavenged from the pan and also to allow removal of excess air from the crankcase. That means you will often get some air returned to the oil tank especially at low engine speeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump
When the oil gets up to operating temp the moisture is removed from the engine through the head breather bolts.
The Harley is a dry sump oil system, it is designed to have a larger volume oil scavenge /return pump than the oil feed pump. The dry-sump pump is designed with multiple stages to ensure that all the oil is scavenged from the pan and also to allow removal of excess air from the crankcase. That means you will often get some air returned to the oil tank especially at low engine speeds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump
Last edited by shanneba; Dec 22, 2017 at 03:54 AM.
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From: Tulsa
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From: Central Fl
If none of the above helps. Try some 20w50 amsoil in it. Somme oils have a tendency to create air bubbles. Amsoil is noted for solving such issues. Hope this helps.
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From: Honah Lee
Like the transmission and primary, there is a lot of windage for oils in a Harley. What you are checking is what has just been whiped by the engine and sucked up and dumped into the oil bag either under the transmission or on a Softail under the seat.
It's pretty normal to see this.
TwinCams run little pressure at idle since the cooling oil injectors have pressure release springs set to only release above 12psi. This prevents cooking the oil at stoplights. Even at WOT, the oil pump pressure release limits oilpressure to 35 psi.
Unlike a car automatic transmission or a car motor that requires a lot of volume at a high pressure to insure oil gets completely thru all areas.(it's a mistaken idea it's required to float sleeve shell bearing)
If you are really concerned, screw a pressure valve into the switch at the oil pump. If you have 8-10 at idle and 35 at 3000, you are fine.
It's pretty normal to see this.
TwinCams run little pressure at idle since the cooling oil injectors have pressure release springs set to only release above 12psi. This prevents cooking the oil at stoplights. Even at WOT, the oil pump pressure release limits oilpressure to 35 psi.
Unlike a car automatic transmission or a car motor that requires a lot of volume at a high pressure to insure oil gets completely thru all areas.(it's a mistaken idea it's required to float sleeve shell bearing)
If you are really concerned, screw a pressure valve into the switch at the oil pump. If you have 8-10 at idle and 35 at 3000, you are fine.
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Joined: Oct 2011
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From: Nor Cal
Any plans of updating/fixing your Thread?