All Harley Doom and Gloom Posts Mega Thread
Banned
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 23,816
Likes: 57,355
From: Tampa, FL
When you want to turn around a company that's floundering, you do a couple of things. You get rid of products that aren't profitable and focus on those products that are profitable. In other words, you streamline. When you streamline, employees are the first to go. That's just how it is.
Zeitz has a plan to do just this and he has said as much in his recent stockholder meeting. He said, "Significant changes are necessary, and we must move in new directions." His plan, called "The Rewire", includes "resetting product launches and product line up for simplicity and maximum impact".
Other facets of "The Rewire" include:
Zeitz has a plan to do just this and he has said as much in his recent stockholder meeting. He said, "Significant changes are necessary, and we must move in new directions." His plan, called "The Rewire", includes "resetting product launches and product line up for simplicity and maximum impact".
Other facets of "The Rewire" include:
- Prioritize the markets that matter.
- Build the Parts & Accessories and General Merchandise businesses to full potential.
- Adjust and align the organizational structure, cost structure and operating model to reduce complexity and drive efficiency to set Harley-Davidson up for stability and success.
How about taking an investment from Indian or Honda?
On July 4, 1997, Jobs persuaded Apple's board to oust Amelio and make Jobs the interim, and then permanent, CEO. In August 1997, Jobs took the stage at another Macworld Expo to announce that Apple had taken a $150 million investment from its long-time rivals at Microsoft. "We need all the help we can get," Jobs said, to boos from the audience.
https://www.businessinsider.com/stev...evel-laptop-12
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 269
Likes: 172
From: Oley, PA
Yet I still remain hopeful, so yep I still read these forums and even post here. Old habits die hard I guess.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,627
Likes: 1,348
From:
The Imac, Ibook, IPod, Itunes store & IPhone saved apple. Let's see if the sneaker CEO comes up with those kind of world breaking innovation ideas.
How about taking an investment from Indian or Honda?
How about taking an investment from Indian or Honda?
On July 4, 1997, Jobs persuaded Apple's board to oust Amelio and make Jobs the interim, and then permanent, CEO. In August 1997, Jobs took the stage at another Macworld Expo to announce that Apple had taken a $150 million investment from its long-time rivals at Microsoft. "We need all the help we can get," Jobs said, to boos from the audience.
https://www.businessinsider.com/stev...evel-laptop-12Because I love the brand. I rode HD's for 25 years, I have a closet full of shirt & sweatshirts, I still wear HD gloves and an HD jacket even while riding my Honda Goldwing. I'd like to buy a Pan America for a second bike if I ever get to see one in real life. I want Harley to succeed, I'd like to see them turn things around, I'd love it if they built a bike which appealed to me today. They don't.
Yet I still remain hopeful, so yep I still read these forums and even post here. Old habits die hard I guess.
Yet I still remain hopeful, so yep I still read these forums and even post here. Old habits die hard I guess.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,673
Likes: 5,069
From: Georgia
Considering they seem to as high if not higher, their accessories are higher, I doubt this would be a good move. Harley would be best served by pricing their bikes to undercut Indian by a lot and emphasizing you can get real American quality at a good price. They need to out tech Indian. Simple idea is anything labeled Special or Ultra should have all the bells and whistles, like full blue tooth support, carplay/android auto where applicable, RDRS, and fully keyless which means remote/one button locking. We can hope some of this shows up if they ever bother to update the tour line frame and electronics.
We really don't know what the new guy has in mind, his bullet point announcements are so generic they might as well be a tea leaf reading. No, we have to wait for the second part of Rewire to drop, know which models are out and which new models are in. As for comparing back to Steve Jobs, sorry not going to work. Steve Jobs was an innovator who always looked to make his products better and expand what people thought was could be done with technology letting the engineers to sort out the costs. We might have a Tim Cook, the supply chain oriented type person who can maximize that side of the process.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 10,070
Likes: 5,321
Considering they seem to as high if not higher, their accessories are higher, I doubt this would be a good move. Harley would be best served by pricing their bikes to undercut Indian by a lot and emphasizing you can get real American quality at a good price. They need to out tech Indian. Simple idea is anything labeled Special or Ultra should have all the bells and whistles, like full blue tooth support, carplay/android auto where applicable, RDRS, and fully keyless which means remote/one button locking. We can hope some of this shows up if they ever bother to update the tour line frame and electronics.
We really don't know what the new guy has in mind, his bullet point announcements are so generic they might as well be a tea leaf reading. No, we have to wait for the second part of Rewire to drop, know which models are out and which new models are in. As for comparing back to Steve Jobs, sorry not going to work. Steve Jobs was an innovator who always looked to make his products better and expand what people thought was could be done with technology letting the engineers to sort out the costs. We might have a Tim Cook, the supply chain oriented type person who can maximize that side of the process.
We really don't know what the new guy has in mind, his bullet point announcements are so generic they might as well be a tea leaf reading. No, we have to wait for the second part of Rewire to drop, know which models are out and which new models are in. As for comparing back to Steve Jobs, sorry not going to work. Steve Jobs was an innovator who always looked to make his products better and expand what people thought was could be done with technology letting the engineers to sort out the costs. We might have a Tim Cook, the supply chain oriented type person who can maximize that side of the process.
Jobs acted decisively. He cancelled 70 percent of Apple's products and laid off more than 3000 people, turning a $1 billion loss in 1997 into a $300 million profit in 1998. Then he started work building products that became Silicon Valley legends.
Zeitz took his plan right out of the Steve Jobs playbook.
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 276
Likes: 147
From: Alabama
Harley has the best fit and finish in the business. All they are lacking are a few features on their touring bikes as far as I'm concerned.
Harley ain't going no where ... they'll just sell fewer bikes in the future and close some dealerships in areas that are over saturated with dealerships.
I sold my 2017 HSTC a while ago and I was not on the market for another bike as I have other bikes in my garage to ride.
I came across a great deal on a 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental with 200 miles on the clock that I could not pass up.
Here's my thoughts:
The fit and finish on my Venture is nowhere near quality of the fit and finish on a Harley. A 2018 Ultra Limited blows it away in that area ... by a thousand miles.
OMG! That mess of wires on the Venture's handlebars drives me insane after having the internal wiring that a Harley has.
The quality of the plastic on the dash flat out sucks. Yamaha spent a lot of time and money engineering the new Venture but when it came time to designing the one part of the bike you ALWAYS see every mile you ride the bike ... the dash... they said screw it.
OTOH, the dash area of an Ultra Limited is very pleasing to the eye.
On the engineering side, I'll give the nod to the Venture over the Ultra Limited.
For example:
Key fob with one touch locking and unlocking of saddlebags and topcase.
Electric windshield. I'll never buy another touring motorcycle that has a factory fairing without this feature. I lower it when it's hot and we're riding around town. On the interstate I raise it up all the way and at 85 mph neither I nor my wife riding pillion get any buffeting at all. It's the best of both worlds.
Factory heated riders seat and backrest, and passenger seat and topcase backrest. That alone would cost me almost $1,300 above the $28,700 base price to install on a new Ultra Limited.
Dual zone audio. My wife and I can listen to a different satellite radio stations and make separate phone calls at the same time.
A dedicated electric motor that has a crawling forward and reverse feature.
I use it to back the bike out of my garage. It's nothing that I can't live without, but it's a nice feature that I wish Harley would offer as a factory option for those who want something like that.
I have a longer torso and short legs. On an Ultra limited I'm kind of tip toeing but on the Venture I'm flatfooted yet the Venture has over two more inches of suspension travel than the Ultra.
The center-of-gravity is much lower than on an Ultra Limited. Everyone that I've let ride my Venture has commented that for such a big, heavy motorcycle it's very easy off the kickstand and it feels much lighter than it is because of its low COG.
Harley needs to increase the factory warranty duration on their touring line:
BMW: Three year warranty.
Honda Gold Wing: Three year warranty.
Kawasaki Voyager: Three year warranty.
Star Venture: Five year warranty.
Ride modes: The Venture has a "Sport" and a "Touring" mode. Different throttle responses for different riding conditions.
As far a sales go, the Ultra Limited is a much more desirable touring motorcycle that the Venture is. For touring riders, Harley's dealer network is gold.
The point of my post is this: I REALLY want another Harley. I miss having one parked in my garage. I'll definitely buy a 2018 or newer softail in the future.
I'd LOVE to have an Ultra Limited in the future too.
However, when it come time to buy another new touring bike all I ask is for Harley's Ultra Limited to have an electric adjustable windshield, longer travel suspension, factory heated rider and passenger seats and backrest, a factory reverse option, and at least a three year warranty ... is that to much to as for a "premium" touring motorcycle?
Harley, make that bike and I'll buy one in the summer of 2023 and I'll gladly pay the price that it cost to manufacture such a bike in the USA.
An Ultra Limited is a BEAUTIFUL motorcycle, but please give it some modern features that other touring bikes already have from the factory.
Harley ain't going no where ... they'll just sell fewer bikes in the future and close some dealerships in areas that are over saturated with dealerships.
I sold my 2017 HSTC a while ago and I was not on the market for another bike as I have other bikes in my garage to ride.
I came across a great deal on a 2018 Yamaha Star Venture Transcontinental with 200 miles on the clock that I could not pass up.
Here's my thoughts:
The fit and finish on my Venture is nowhere near quality of the fit and finish on a Harley. A 2018 Ultra Limited blows it away in that area ... by a thousand miles.
OMG! That mess of wires on the Venture's handlebars drives me insane after having the internal wiring that a Harley has.
The quality of the plastic on the dash flat out sucks. Yamaha spent a lot of time and money engineering the new Venture but when it came time to designing the one part of the bike you ALWAYS see every mile you ride the bike ... the dash... they said screw it.
OTOH, the dash area of an Ultra Limited is very pleasing to the eye.
On the engineering side, I'll give the nod to the Venture over the Ultra Limited.
For example:
Key fob with one touch locking and unlocking of saddlebags and topcase.
Electric windshield. I'll never buy another touring motorcycle that has a factory fairing without this feature. I lower it when it's hot and we're riding around town. On the interstate I raise it up all the way and at 85 mph neither I nor my wife riding pillion get any buffeting at all. It's the best of both worlds.
Factory heated riders seat and backrest, and passenger seat and topcase backrest. That alone would cost me almost $1,300 above the $28,700 base price to install on a new Ultra Limited.
Dual zone audio. My wife and I can listen to a different satellite radio stations and make separate phone calls at the same time.
A dedicated electric motor that has a crawling forward and reverse feature.
I use it to back the bike out of my garage. It's nothing that I can't live without, but it's a nice feature that I wish Harley would offer as a factory option for those who want something like that.
I have a longer torso and short legs. On an Ultra limited I'm kind of tip toeing but on the Venture I'm flatfooted yet the Venture has over two more inches of suspension travel than the Ultra.
The center-of-gravity is much lower than on an Ultra Limited. Everyone that I've let ride my Venture has commented that for such a big, heavy motorcycle it's very easy off the kickstand and it feels much lighter than it is because of its low COG.
Harley needs to increase the factory warranty duration on their touring line:
BMW: Three year warranty.
Honda Gold Wing: Three year warranty.
Kawasaki Voyager: Three year warranty.
Star Venture: Five year warranty.
Ride modes: The Venture has a "Sport" and a "Touring" mode. Different throttle responses for different riding conditions.
As far a sales go, the Ultra Limited is a much more desirable touring motorcycle that the Venture is. For touring riders, Harley's dealer network is gold.
The point of my post is this: I REALLY want another Harley. I miss having one parked in my garage. I'll definitely buy a 2018 or newer softail in the future.
I'd LOVE to have an Ultra Limited in the future too.
However, when it come time to buy another new touring bike all I ask is for Harley's Ultra Limited to have an electric adjustable windshield, longer travel suspension, factory heated rider and passenger seats and backrest, a factory reverse option, and at least a three year warranty ... is that to much to as for a "premium" touring motorcycle?
Harley, make that bike and I'll buy one in the summer of 2023 and I'll gladly pay the price that it cost to manufacture such a bike in the USA.
An Ultra Limited is a BEAUTIFUL motorcycle, but please give it some modern features that other touring bikes already have from the factory.
Last edited by Timbo64; Jul 12, 2020 at 01:02 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 561
Likes: 311
From: Depends on the season
responsibilities of Boards is the same for every public company these days. The only differences are in certain industries such as financial services.
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 990
From:
Originally Posted by panheadache
Can someone explain to me what the role of the HD Board Of Directors is?
Originally Posted by Wizardofaus
To Fire the workers and make sure the stock holders get their dividends. Wiz
John Anderson from Levis blue jeans
Allan Golston from Bill Gate's bleeding heart foundation
Sara Levinson from frickin MTV for crying out loud
Brian Niccol from Chipotle (intestines gurgle)
Troy Alstead from woke cancel culture rainbow Starbucks
Michael Cave from Boeing <----
Thomas Linebarger from Cummins <----
And y'all wonder how we got to where we are today? Of the above probably only the last 2 have any mechanical engineering knowledge or experience in how to design, develop, and produce anything. Woke manbun geeks/geekettes running a motorcycle company holy cow - in private they probably wish motorcycles would just go away because their emissions negatively impact the developing fetuses of fur seals. That bunch is deciding what will be marketed to you. Somebody hire a Witch of Endor to channel William S. Harley back to life and let's get this thing turned around.
Edited to add: So have I; it didn't get me nominated for Pope.
Last edited by panheadache; Jul 12, 2020 at 02:50 PM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,673
Likes: 5,069
From: Georgia
What does Zeitz have? Oh, fashion experience, so let me guess based on previous statements we should see expanded apparel sections in our dealer ships?
Motley Fool weighs in <- of course they have no positive outlook
Last edited by ChrisHo; Jul 13, 2020 at 07:51 AM.